GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake' so says Lutz

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by C.RICKEY HIROSE, Mar 29, 2008.

  1. C.RICKEY HIROSE

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    By ASHLEY PHILLIPS
    March 20, 2008

    Not making a hybrid car like the Prius was a "mistake," outspoken General Motors vice chairman Bob Lutz told a room of Chevy Volt "fan boys" at the New York Auto Show this week.
    Story
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    "We had the technology to come out with a hybrid at the same time as Toyota," Lutz said Tuesday. "In hindsight, it was a mistake. ... We made the mistake and we won't make it again."
    "I think the whole company has learned when you step out and do bold things, you win and when you're cautious and let other people do the bold things, you lose," he continued.
    Lutz was at the auto show for an unprecedented town hall type, question-and-answer session from the "Volt Nation," a group of fans of the Volt, GM's electric concept car. They have rallied around a blog created by a New York neurologist who is unaffiliated with the company.

    ABC News: GM: Not Making Hybrid Was a 'Mistake'
     
  2. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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  3. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    How many mistakes? And they seem to keep making them again and again.
     
  4. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    its al to general nothing exiting

    so its in the name "general motors":D
     
  5. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Oct 1997, Toyota scared the crap out of GM when it debuted Prius and stated sales would begin by the end of that year. And indeed, they did!

    Jan 2004, he makes that smug comment about hybrids not making economic sense.

    Mar 2008, he claims not making a hybrid car like Prius was a mistake.

    Nov 2010, he finally delivers a hybrid to compete directly with Prius.

    Same time? Had the technology?

    By my calculations, that's 13 years later.

    .
     
  6. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    What?!? They actually admit making a mistake? Whatever happened to their mantra of "Stay the course!" You're doing a heckuva job, Bob!
     
  7. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I've linked to this in the past, but this article, written by Sam Roe of the Chicago Tribune, chronicles the 1990s and the SuperCar program. Through this story, you get a feel for the attitudes of the Big Three towards the development of hybrid vehicles and the exclusion of Toyota and Honda. Subsequently, when the Big Three were supposed to begin mass producing high-mileage SuperCars, they instead shelved all their work and warehoused their protptypes. Honda and Toyota - who moved ahead with their projects to compete with American hybrids - actually released the Insight and the Prius. That was ten years ago. The rest, as they say, is history.

    It's a long read so get comfortable. I have expressed written permission from Sam to distribute it and we're trying to work out a date when he can come to a Chicago Prius Group meeting to discuss the article.
    http://www.chicagopriusgroup.com/resources/SuperCar.pdf
     
  8. Jimmie84

    Jimmie84 New Member

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    If you truly look at it GM has done very well with all there vehicles getting great gas mileage. The new Malibu is a great looking car that gets 35MPG. Aveo gets like 40MPG.

    Now, Compare these mileage rates to 10-12 years ago and it's an eye opener. Go back even further, Late 70's and 80's vehicle mileage was never accounted for. But I bet those old cars and trucks got 8-10 MPG or less.

    Every vehicle manufacturer today is doing what they can to get better fuel mileage out of there vehicles.
     
  9. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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  10. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    Jimmie, this comment is in direct contradiction to what demigod Lutz said, he said, "we made a mistake because we didn't do all we could to get better fuel mileage, we dropped the ball and let Toyota carry it to the end zone, we are desperate and are trying to catch up with a plug in hybrid of our own. Even though we had the technology back when Toyota bought out the Prius we did nothing with it and now we have to claw our way back from the deep pit we have dug for ourself with our complacent attitude and slick marketing." OK I have paraphrased a Little but that is what he meant.
     
  11. klodhopper

    klodhopper New Member

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    Says it all...;)
     

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  12. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Let's see, the previous gen Aveo got one of the worst gas mileage of small vehicles (bottom 3) Consumer Reports tested (Fuel Economy: Why You're Not Getting the MPG You Expect - MSN Autos) at 27 mpg overall in their testing.

    The Aveo also got 4th and 5th worst scores out of ALL vehicles in Consumer Reports testing per ConsumerReports.org - 2008 Best & worst cars review. Per ConsumerReports.org - Best and worst in new car owner satisfaction, best and worst models (you may need a subscription to see this), it also got the worst owner satisfaction score in the small car category.

    As for this "35MPG" Malibu, per Side-by-Side Comparison, the 08 Malibu 4 cylinder is EPA rated 22/30, 25 combined. In CR testing, they got 15/34, 23 overall. Compare that with the ratings they got for the most economical vehicle's they've tested at ConsumerReports.org - Most fuel-efficient cars. They got 35/50, 44 overall in the Prius.

    The Malibu's mileage isn't particularly remarkable either compared to other cars in its size category. Let's compare MY 08+ EPA ratings:
    08 Nissan Altima 2.5L 4 CVT: 23/31, 26 combined
    08 Toyota Camry 2.4L 4 auto: 21/31, 25 combined
    08 Honda Accord 2.4L 4 auto: 21/31, 24 combined

    If you look at GM's CAFE numbers at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/nht...es/Associated Files/Oct_2007_CAFE_Summary.pdf, you'll see they're a lot worse than Toyota's and Honda's. That's even w/the E85 scam that GM is taking advantage of.

    FWIW, peak US gas mileage was in 1987 per Light-Duty Automotive Technology and Fuel Economy Trends: 1975 Through 2007 - Executive Summary | Cars and Light Trucks | US EPA.

    As for "GM has done very well", per GM reports $38.7-billion loss in '07 - Los Angeles Times, they lost $38.7 BILLION last year and their North American operations lost $1.1 billion last quarter.
     
  13. Jimmie84

    Jimmie84 New Member

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    Sickening, Pure sickening. Very small percentage of people own hybrids. It's ok you have your hybrid and I'll have 2 trucks. You know why? Because it's America and I'll buy what I please for my enjoyment.

    Don't shove this hybrid technology on me.

    I'm done here.
     
  14. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    Don't let the door smack you in the arse on your way out.
     
  15. sendconroymail

    sendconroymail One Mean SOB

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    Woo hooo the red neck is gone!! I hope he didn't just have to run out to get more pabst blue ribbon.
     
  16. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    Did anyone say there were going to take Jimmie's toy trucks away from him? He will be able to push them around the sandpit till he grows up then he will have to get a hybrid. hahaha

    Face it Jimmie, I assume you're lurking, Bob Lutz said it, you know, Suburban, Hummer Tahoe equinox god Lutz, he said not getting into Hybrids was a mistake. Personally I thought GM were doing a great job, if their goal is to go broke.

    Hybrids aren't the be all and end all, they are just a stepping stone to the full electric then full solar cars of the future. Buckets of truck hauling power there for you with acceleration to 6 mph under 10 seconds!! Can you wait? I am nearly peeing my pants!!
     
  17. moxiequz

    moxiequz Weirdo Social Outcast

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    My god, what an elegant and bullet-proof rebuttal! Welp, that shuts the door on this thread - there's clearly no comeback that can break through the stellar logic of that post.
     
  18. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    From Wikipedia
    So the Otto cycle engine has been in cars for 120+ years now and Jimmie is right, a majority of motorists have ottocycle engined conventional drive cars.
    So America has been mass producing cars for over 100 years, and in large numbers for the last 94 years. All the time improving, developing, grooming the market to accept what they pump out.

    So Toyota have been developing their hybrid for the last 14 years, it has been on the market in Japan since December 1997 so 10 and a bit years in the market place and under further development and although the automotive industry has always been developing and changing US manufacturers (and the rest of the world) didn't see what was taught to us in school back in the 60s and 70s, oil is a finite resource and will become harder to get and become more expensive. What do you know, my geography teacher was right and I was awake for some lessons! What we didn't realise back then was the earth wasn't going to cope so well with all the carbon dioxide. But even when this became evident the US automotive industry did what it does best and made bigger thirstier vehicles!

    Now did Toyota make a mistake making a Hybrid? Well not if growth has anything to do with it.
    Which other car, virtually unchanged over the last 3 years has sales growth of 69%?
    If this rate of sales growth is sustained (a tall order I know) Prius will pass 500,000 units a year in 2011 and 1,000.000 units pr annum in 2014! No longer a low volume seller! This is just sales in the USA, how are truck sales going in the US?
     
  19. Jimmie84

    Jimmie84 New Member

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    As in this thread....
     
  20. Jimmie84

    Jimmie84 New Member

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    Beautiful! Your taking information from wikipedia? Not a valuable source for info.
     
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