GM: Not Making Hybrid a 'Mistake' so says Lutz

This poster actually did the community here a favor by educating us about the "Don't Take My Truck" political action initiatives in Minnesota. See this link on the "donttakemytruck.com" website: Facts

- Looks like a cue for Minnesotans here to contact their legislators :typing: and express their support for the low emission vehicle legislation in question.

 

That seems like an expression of little confidence in Two-Mode.

It's a hybrid technology from GM that focuses primarily on trucks.

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Hi All,

Well, you know, for every 60 some mpg CAFE mileage Prius, Toyota can sell a 10 mpg SUV (such as a Lexus Guzzler eXtreme) or Pickup and still hit 35 mpg average. Around here in Chicagoland we are well on the way to seeing that on the roads. There are Prii everywhere!

 

Someday way too soon, folks like this will say, "remember when gas was only $9 / galloon ... and we bought big pickups with flag waving U.S. labels on them, even though much of it came from Mexico, China, Canada, and God only knows where, when in fact it was only the Corporate CEO & the top flunkies that were here in the U.S.because of all their outsourcing."
Those will be the folks riding on the bus to get around because cars will all be too wastefull. We’ll be sitting next to them, smiling.

Meanwhile, Lutz will be fired soon. His "brain-storm" ... that he screwed up not building 100's of thousands of hybrids, as Toyota does, finally dawned on him. So he reversed himself ... after basically half a decade. Who knew that such a dope could run a large company. Sharp as a bowling ball. Sure, Jimmy84 isn't as sharp as Lutz, but hopefully he too will catch up to speed. I was just as hopeless at one time, and as I tell some of my attorney friends who went to hoytie-toytie law schools, (compared to mine) "I'm living proof that morons can become achievers, if they apply theirself".

 

Bull Crap!
The engine in my S-10 was made in Michigan, The transmission was made in Colorado, The truck itself was made in Shreveport, LA.
GM Inside News Forum - Engine Guide

As you scroll through the list you will see many 1st and 2nd gen motors. A few 1st gen motors like the 6.0L V8 was made outside the US. Then, After issues with overseas manufacturing GM did the samrt thing and started to manufacture and build the parts in Michigan, and in Ohio.
GM Investing $73 Million in Shreveport Plant for Production of HUMMER H3T

This is the same plant that builds the GMT355 twins, Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon are built there. So don't bark up my rear about outsourcing because I bet you Toyota does it more than GM.

I guess If I got to dig up links for all thew other vehicles GM manufactures in the US I will.

Another thing, Manufacturers make vehicles to what people demand and want. Obviousy people like cars and people like trucks. There was an accident here in Mn on 494 where a chain reaction accident happened. There were no trucks invloved and a guys brand new camry was smashed all to hell. It even killed a newborn child. Now, had he been in a SUV or a full sized truck that baby probably would have survived. I've seen countless accidents where a truck is involved and there is barley any major damage. Bigger is safer as long as the individual knows its limits. The only reason people say it's not safe in a truck or SUV is because the idiot does 100MPH around a corner and flips it.


People on here blame trucks for every issue. I never hear anybody on here talking about Toyotas gas guzzling SUV's and trucks? Whats up with that?

The "select few" make up such a small amount, that it wouldn't put a dent in our country's petroleum demand. Getting rid of Hummer won't change anything. Getting rid of all trucks & SUVs won't change anything either!

How much do you think our oil consumption would drop if we all drove hybrids? Maybe 15%? All that would do is lower gas prices slightly. We'd still be buying cheap, Mid East oil.

NOTHING is going to stop us from buying Mid East oil unless you convince the government to stop buying it. So stop blaming the trucks, SUVs, & Hummers.

The only thing the Goverment is good at and thats the Military. They got involved into Healthcare and other things and are taxing things to death.

 

I'm not using the link to push on anybody but for people to stand up and defend there rights.

 

I thought you were leaving.

 

Don't wave the flag at me. I served 10 years in the Utah National Guard and US Army, so I'm one hell of a lot more "patriotic" than the armchair soldiers in the US

If you think it's okey dokey to have a perpetual military action in the Gulf to keep that "cheap" oil flowing, great. Just don't expect me to defend it, those days are long behind me. I sure hope I never get stop-lossed

I think the real question is why the US hasn't built any new refinery capacity in so long? Why is that? Big oil has deep pockets, they could very easily shove through a new refinery if they chose to do so

Don't start on environmentalists or EPA either. When Bush and co had a tight grip on this country, they could have shoved through any plan they wanted to build refineries and new oil fields.

Why didn't they??

Hmmm?

Because of Supply and Demand. If you take steps to artificially curtail supply, the price point naturally rises. The Demand for gasoline is almost like the demand for narcotics, almost a vertical line. Even minor changes in Demand hardly influence oil company profits

Oh, despite that crippling price per barrel, why are oil company profits are record levels? If there was no collusion, if their input costs really did influence things, they would barely be breaking even.

Still, bully for the oil companies. I have some in my portfolio and am smiling

You're absolutely correct that you should be allowed to purchase whatever you want. Just don't whine about what it costs to fill the tank. Actually, because it's a writeoff for me anyway, I could care less what it costs to fill the tank. If gas was $10 a gal, I could really give a s***

I'm one of the few who can walk into a Range Rover or Lexus dealer and cut a check for a new luxury SUV. So I can pretty much drive whatever I want to, I chose to drive what I currently have in my fleet.

Oh, this arguement about big SUV's and pickups being safer has already been disproven by the NHTSA. If you are in a car, and are smacked by a giant SUV, you do poorly. If the SUV is smacked by a semi, the SUV does poorly. It's all physics

e:\dot\ltv html\ltvissues

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/809979.PDF

Question, do pickups and SUV's have the same requirement for roof protection that cars do? Look it up

As far as Lutz, if I had job performance as bad as he did, I would have been fired years ago. I really have to wonder how a major corporation can continue the lucrative salary, options, and severence packages of incompetent CEO's, Veeps, and Board of Directors, while axing line workers left and right

 

Since Oil is pretty much only used for transportation in the USA - coal, natural gas, and Nuclear plus some hydro dominate power generation - raising fuel efficiency will certainly directly reduce gasoline (oil) consumption.

Sorry, but lower efficiency trucks, SUV's, and Hummers are a big part of the problem - along with lots of 20'ish mpg Camrys, Accords, etc. The only debate seems to be whether the US Government should let eventual crushing market forces (i.e, higher gas prices and potential shortages - gas lines) force American consumers to switch to more fuel efficiency vehicles or attempt (in advance) to soften the looming peak oil blow by immediately mandating much higher fleet fuel efficiency (CAFE) standards.

Given that the many of the major oil exporting countries are certainly not friends (of the USA) and higher oil demand translates directly into enriching these enemies, US Government action that reduces demand for oil also seems to make sense beyond basic economic reasons.

If anything, the issue seems to be not whether the US should raise CAFE standards to 35mpg in 2020 - but instead whether the US should raise CAFE standards to 45mpg in 2010 (i.e., start hybridizing and/or dieselizing the entire US fleet) and 70+ mpg a decade later (short range plug-in hybrids). Given that average life of cars in the fleet is at least 10 years. Starting the switchover as soon as possible to get the older 15mpg SUVs off the road makes sense.

 

He lied. Surprised? I'm not...

 

myths, not knowing the facts and/or unwilling to see them

Bigger is NOT necessarily safer. Large trucks and SUVs have terrible handling and braking and thus are terrible at avoiding accidents in the first place. Go look at the braking and accident avoidance test ratings in Consumer Reports for instance, you'll notice that the ones that do worse are the large SUVs and trucks. When they do get into multi-car accidents, because of their high mass, they therefore posses more kinetic energy (1/2 * mass * velocity^2) and therefore inflict more damage than a vehicle w/an average mass.

"Select few", here you go again w/your distorted views and perceptions. Per Light-Duty Automotive Technology and Fuel Economy Trends: 1975 Through 2007 - Executive Summary | Cars and Light Trucks | US EPA (that I posted earlier), "light truck" sales have gone from making up 19% of the fleet to 49% of sales. This includes minivans, pickups, SUVs and some vans. And from the above article,

"Historically, growth in the light truck market was primarily driven by the explosive increase in the market share of SUVs. The SUV market share increased from less than 10 percent of the overall new light-duty vehicle market in MY1990 to about 30 percent of vehicles built each year since 2003. By comparison, market shares for both vans and pickup trucks have declined slightly since 1990. The increased overall market share of light trucks, which in recent years have averaged 5-7 mpg lower than cars, accounted for much of the decline in fuel economy of the overall new light-duty vehicle fleet from MY1987 through MY2004."

Making up 49% of of vehicles sales is NOT "select few".

Yes, Toyota makes some guzzlers too but I guess you didn't bother to look at the CAFE numbers I posted earlier. GM's taking advantage of the E85 scam to boost their numbers whereas Toyota's hasn't (yet).

Go take a look at GM and Toyota US auto sales for 07 at http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor_information/docs/sales_prod/07_12/deliveries_0712.pdf and Toyota Reports 2007 and December Sales | Reuters. Notice Toyota sold 1.1 million light trucks in the US last year vs. 2.3 million for GM? Notice that light truck sales made up 60% of GM's sales vs. 42% of Toyota's?

 

Hi Jimmie, you will have your hybrid some day soon, I hear the new federal legislation regarding maximum fuel consumption of new vehicles unless you have a special permit for commercial use is coming soon. Enjoy.

Which part of my post isn't accurate? Which information from Wiki is so far out that it makes the point of my post benign? I'd love to hear your views on this.


By the way, I was joking in the first paragraph of this post, but I bet reading it made you smile and laugh. We know you want a Hybrid or you wouldn't be hanging around. Save your pennies and you too can have one.

 

Are you implying random message board trolls ARE a valuable source for info?

 

Funny you bring that up. In 2006 we had 2 midsize SUVs for transport, and then got the Prius. The Prius is now used for some of the commute and does about 60% of the miles we drive in a year. The household fuel consumption has dropped to less than half on an annual basis than before. We still have the 2 SUVs (one retired for recreational duty only) and now a Prius that we try to use as much as possible.

That is with 2 midsize SUVs, if it were fullsize the difference would be even bigger. Point being it makes a far larger difference than people care to realize.

The average midsize sedan can barely get 25 MPG on normal commute duty, both the Civic and Prius easily exceed 40 MPG. That is a huge improvement, 37.5% actually. Now take into account that a large number of vehicle sold are midsize SUVs and bigger, and the gap increases significantly.

Point is we better drop our energy consumption drastically now!!! Or else we will pay a huge price for it in so many ways later.

WHo cares if you don't like hybrid technology, it is just one option. If you don't like it, get a new clean diesel that will be coming out soon, or just ride a bicycle more. Many ways to address it, but this false sense of being patriotic by consuming a resource we actually can't afford as a nation is simply foolish.

 

Don'ttakemytruck.com is started/run/funded by MADA.

AKA: Mn Auto Dealers Association. Biased??? Maybe just a little.....

I would guess Jimmie is a member of MADA and probably either a GM dealer like Malorn, or possibly even the guy who is running the website.

 

You mean a dealership salesjerk would make up things just to sell a product?

Well, I'm crushed.

If you can't trust salesjerks, who CAN you trust?!

 

I rented the Aveo <not by choice> and got low mpg, far lower then the rating. I drive my Mustang and I achive the EPA ratings or beat them.

I tried cruise control 60mph and could not achive EPA over 15 miles. I have a scanguage II to read how well I was doing. I do 65mph cruise control in my Mustang 15 miles and EPA is beat.

The ride of the Aveo was HORRIBLE. The doors felt like they could not protect me in the event of any crash. The one thing that was good was acceleration, it did well there. The car had about 12000 miles on it and was a 2007 MY.

I expected the car to be better.

 

Sorry, but that's not how it works.

Together, a 10mpg and a 60mpg vehicle average 17.1mpg.

If the 60mpg vehicle consumed no fuel at all, the average would only be 20mpg. So 10mpg and 60mpg averaged has to be under 20mpg.

 

I tried to warn you Jimmie84. You better do your research before you open your mouth in this forum or they will get ya.

Judging by your current sources even Wikipedia would be a great source for you to exploit.

This stereotypical American sense of entitlement is for the birds and honestly makes me embarassed to call myself and American when in the company of non-Americans. A human beings rights to clean air and water trump the "rights" to do whatever you damn well please and pollute because you enjoy it.

Just try and remember what pollution really means and and what part you play in producing it:

pollution (p-lshn)
The contamination of air, water, or soil by substances that are harmful to living organisms. Pollution can occur naturally, for example through volcanic eruptions, or as the result of human activities, such as the spilling of oil or disposal of industrial waste. Light from cities and towns at night that interferes with astronomical observations is known as light pollution. It can also disturb natural rhythms of growth in plants and other organisms. Continuous noise that is loud enough to be annoying or physically harmful is known as noise pollution. Heat from hot water that is discharged from a factory into a river or lake, where it can kill or endanger aquatic life, is known as thermal pollution.