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Good luck Parker Solar Probe

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, Aug 12, 2018.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: NASA launches Parker Solar Probe mission to study the sun up close - SpaceNews.com

    A NASA mission to travel closer to the sun than any previous spacecraft is on its way after a successful launch from Cape Canaveral Aug. 12.

    The United Launch Alliance Delta 4 Heavy carrying NASA’s Parker Solar Probe mission lifted off from Space Launch Complex 37 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida at 3:31 a.m. Eastern. Controllers scrubbed a launch attempt the previous day because of technical issues late in the countdown. The spacecraft separated from its kick stage 43 minutes after launch.

    The 700-kilogram spacecraft required not only a Delta 4 Heavy but also a Star 48BV kick stage from Northrop Grumman in order to counteract the Earth’s rotational speed around the sun, allowing it to fall closer to the sun. The spacecraft will also perform a series of Venus flybys, starting in early October, to bring it closer to the sun.
    . . .

    There are reports that the Sun is cooling and some claim there is a solar pattern that predicts the solar radiance. This will be a close look and assuming it survives, we're about to learn a lot. But the Delta heavy launch sure seemed ponderous compared to the Falcon heavy.

    In contrast to the video from Falcon launches all the way to deployment, Delta reverts to graphics that look like cheaply made animation. Perhaps unfair because Delta dates from 58 years ago compared to the more modern Falcon family. Still, the Falcon heavy launch was more impressive.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    In past threads, we've talked about launch energy needed to reach various targets. Here are some related comments from a CNN article, verifying that getting to the sun is even harder than getting to Pluto:

    "... on a United Launch Alliance Delta IV Heavy rocket, one of the world's most powerful rockets.

    Although the probe itself is about the size of a car, a powerful rocket is needed to escape Earth's orbit, change direction and reach the sun."

    ""The launch energy to reach the Sun is 55 times that required to get to Mars, and two times that needed to get to Pluto," Yanping Guo of the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory, who designed the mission trajectory, said in a statement. ..."

    Parker Solar Probe launched Sunday on 'mission to touch the sun' - CNN
     
  3. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    I wonder why there is not enough money to solve the problems we have on earth?

    Don't get me wrong I love all the space stuff but politicians don't do anything for the people with the money they take from us with taxes then send it up in space into a black hole.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    NASA's budget is a drop in the bucket compared to what we do spend down here.
    Besides, knowing what the sun is doing will shape our response to global warming, and solar output has a big effect on our satellites' operation.
     
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  5. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    Elon Musk's would be watching closely, and perhaps, thinking of something daring than this mission.
     
  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Some of this research does deal with problems here on earth: solar storm impacts on our electrical grids, terrestrial radio communications, and communications and weather satellite survivability. The sun creates its own space weather, and its storms have major impacts on us, especially since we became dependent on electricity and radio.

    None of this actual money is sent into space. It is all spent, and continues circulating, down here on the ground.
     
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  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    By my reading, Parker probe will close approach to about 3 sun diameters. Planet Mercury orbits at about 80 sun diameters. Hot stuff.

    Unsure how close Kirk &crew had to go to travel back in time. Or, more vexingly, how doing it again caused them to travel forward in time ????

    Anyway, hoping Parker's clock is up to the task.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    we will never solve all the problems here on earth.
     
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Solar diameter: 1.39Mkm.
    Closest approach, 25th orbit: 6Mkm above surface.

    So I am getting 6 / 1.39 = 4.3 diameters above surface (4.8 diameters from center).
     
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  10. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    This is the Sun Mission.....
    The Black Hole Mission is still TBD.

    With all due respect and absolutely no venom or insult intended....
    If I may provide one small rebuttal point, space exploration DOES solve problems here on Earth.
    In addition to re-purposing launchers originally developed for nucular defense, United Launch Alliance manufacturers college diplomas, paid-for houses, car pink slips, filled parking lots at the local Food Whole, and lots and lots of other neat stuff.
    This is because they actually pay people to do research and development, and not all of them get paid six-figures to publish meaningless studies about whether coffee is going to be GOOD for you or BAD for you next year.
    Researchers don't actually build junk, they mostly hire it done, and since EVERYBODY hates dot.gov employees (not without some justification!) a lot of the grunt work is actually hired out to regular folks with regular incomes.
    LOTS of them!

    Oh....and the R/D also develops junk like miniaturized electronics, communications, power (solar), fuel cells, batteries, etc.

    It's no coincidink that THE post modern savior of humanity (just ask him!) one Elon R. Musk chose both the automotive AND space exploration industries to...what....save?? ....disrupt??? Actually it was to INVEST in with the idea that he would eventually save us all....and he plowed all of his own money into these two industries.
    I regularly call out Musk for his eccentricities, but there's no denying that he actually believes most of the stuff that he says about the necessity of EITHER the human animal becoming a multi-planetary species or going the way of most of the other species that live only here.

    Either way, there's a fairly straight path from bunny-huggy things like electric cars and solar panels to research and development both for the military and space exploration, which is to say the military and the military.

    So....yeah.
    It's important enough to spend money on.

    EVEN if you're what some people call a "denier" there's merit in developing a skill-set to do things like divert asteroids, since there's a very close to 100-percent-chance that a climate-altering rock will plow into the Earth in the next few millennium.

    YMMV
     
    #11 ETC(SS), Aug 13, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Mention just above of meaningless coffee studies may merit discussion. A 2006 review of caffeine health effects:

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10408390500400009

    Cites 289 publications. It has since been cited by 115 others:

    Cited In for PubMed (Select 16507475) - PubMed - NCBI

    If anyone is actually interested in this topic, please scan titles of those 404 publications and say which ones you suppose have even a small chance of having been done for motives of profit. As opposed to a (sensible) desire to better understand complicated health roles of this very widely consumed product.

    ==
    It is not uncommon for people to suggest that health research (in this area or others) is motivated by profit, inconsistent (without a good reason for being so) or downright silly. I suggest such notions come not from reading (even titles of) scientific studies. Rather from repeating what one read at whatever website that may have agenda. Even an agenda so benign as 'click me please'.

    I don't argue against folks living their lives that way. For me, it''s not a good look, but freedom and all that. y'all get to choose. Willful ignorance is a choice.
     
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  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Begging for an apology for my career:
    NASA's budget payed for people like me:
    • hardware multiply - an upgrade to a PDP-11 included a floating point co-processor but the compiler did not generate the code. So I wrote assembly language routines that increased their image processing software by a factor of 10. This is early software that processed Landsat data.
    • PDP-8 printer to serial interface - the documentation was using a PDP-8 word processor but we needed the documents in a DEC-10 when there was no common media. I bought the parts and configured a parallel-to-serial interface that looked like a printer to the PDP-8 and a terminal line to the DEC-10 so we could "print into the DEC-10."
    • IBM mainframe data interface - data would come in via a parallel interface but periodically it would hang and operations would take 30 minutes to reboot. Reading the schematics, I found the error status was transferred over the same parallel interface that had a problem so both sides had to be reset by rebooting both the hardware and IBM mainframe. So I wrote a channel program reset routine and tested it the next time . . . it worked. The interface could still hang but the 30 minutes reboot was gone.
    • switched from IBM operating system programmer to VAX/VMS - wrote a script to extract design and user documentation from the comments of the code. The application programmers gave feedback that was incorporated in the code and a stub device driver written so they could integrate their code with the driver while we waited for the hardware to arrive 30 days later. Four hardware interfaces were handled by three device drivers. I helped the integration and test team resolve some ugly overlay problem in the application software. Developed a general purpose, performance monitor that identified processing bottlenecks in the application code that was commercially sold. Read the VAX hardware schematics and developed a way to use a multi-channel, digital analyzer connected to the backplane to diagnose errors in device code and memory clean-up in VMS. The memory clean-up was a subsequent fix DEC put in all VMS systems. Signed off with "This is the best device driver document I have ever seen" when it came around with someone else's name as the author. Tuned a seven step, mainframe routine by rewriting processes (aka., steps) to be subroutines processed under two programs (i.e. steps,) It reduced the processing cost by a factor of five. Developed a VMS, virtual printer interface for a 128k Mac and later run length encoding to compress and decompress the images. It led to moving to Huntsville AL when our successful bid won a major contract. Instead of vector graphics, we used bit-maps that were 10x faster but this was a Navy program.
    • joined Boeing at Marshall Space Flight Center - Eight years earlier, an obscure software problem in one of my first device drivers that the Goddard configuration control board denied fixing. I took a personal day to re-diagnose the problem which worked. Configured a script to e-mail key crash information for the VAX/VMS systems so I could work problems within minutes and call the local admin with a diagnosis and sometimes a fix. Ran out of VAX/VMS problems except for intermittent network problems. Because existing ethernet sniffers were too expensive to loan to me and VAX/VMS drivers too slow, I wrote a parasitic device driver that buffered ethernet frames into larger buffers that was ~5-10 times faster. Diagnosed network "broadcast storms" that were knocking users offline (i.e., blue screen of death.) Joined the network operations team and began diagnosis of intermittent network problems. Maintained DEC Polycenter, SNMP enterprise monitor, that was underutilized.
    • NASA HQ network engineer - modeled replacement of End-Of-Life hubs with a switched Cisco network saving ~$1M of avoidable costs. Later moved to operations and oversaw network wiring upgrade to Cat-5 that replaced Cat-nothing, crap wiring to the desk tops. Managed HP Openview and Cisco enterprise monitors. A supervisor, I handled personnel problems.
    • Network security team leader - diagnosed and fixed an obscure Linux driver problem and a compromised system. Managed to separate the development team from the operations team. Diagnosed a network routing problem that was blocking a routed link.
    • NASA WAN network engineer - specialized in tail sites where contractors and university researches needed a link to NASA's private networks to get data for various missions. Always under the most restrictive budgets, designed and oversaw everything from circuits to hardware integration to maximize the most cost-effect solution. For example, the first Mars explorer mission was supposed to last 90 days and needed high reliability because command and control was in San Diego connected to JPL in Los Angles yet they needed significant data capacity as well as 4-wire telephone support (house land lines are 2-wire.) It was replaced four years later by significantly more expensive circuits and hardware as mine had reached End-Of-Life without a change.
    • enterprise monitor admin - I kept it running until End-Of-Life when I retired and the new kids had deployed the replacement.
    NASA budgets pay the salaries of many curious, clever people . . . not all like me. But people who race against ignorance, sloth, and cruelty. No, we sometime reach too far and there are the occasional 'brats.' But we are a stronger, smarter country because we keep these bright, often underpaid people.

    Yes, I am aware and admire Burt Rutan and Elon Musk who have individually achieve excellence. But inspite of some snarky comments, both have tasted tax payer dollars which kept them in business.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #13 bwilson4web, Aug 13, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
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  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    If motivated, I'm sure I could find examples of pointless research publications. But my list or others' longer lists do not argue that funded science is a poor use of funds in general.

    Perhaps I also have something to justify here. Within a narrow range of topics I review manuscripts for journals before publication. To the extent that silliness gets into journals it reflects poorly on journal reviewers.
     
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  14. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    The probe is going to approach the Sun at night, so it doesn't burn up.
     
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  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Of course if the solar probe survives the mission, it also means we have electronics relatively immune to a nuclear, anti-missile weapon.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Ten 'likes' for whoever can recall 1950's scifi with quote "They must have entered the solar system under cover of darkness". (approximate quote)
     
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  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Parker has a whizbang heat shield and also radiators. Latter might not be effective against impulse fluxes of whatever, but I see your point. Likely that some people involved in current space military are thinking along similar lines.
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    "Plan 9 From Outer Space" ??
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
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  19. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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