Goodbye Prius

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by RobertZ, Dec 1, 2021.

  1. RobertZ

    RobertZ Member

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    So after 4 years of trouble free ownership, I parted with Prius Prime (Premium model) last Friday.
    Only reason to sell was this red hot seller market.

    I bought this car brand new in 2017 December for about $19K ($23 - 4K federal rebate).
    I did add soundproofing to it.
    First 2 years I used the car for commute.
    After pandemic wife used it for her commute (4 miles RT).
    We charged it every night. Last time I filled the gas was 2000 miles ago in May...

    Car had 33.2K miles on it when I checked on KBB.
    KBB range was $24-27K.
    Local KBB dealer offered below $25K still I took the car for them to check it out.
    We negotiated up to $25,750.00 so I sold it.

    That's a profit of $6750.00 after 4 years of use...

    I am moving on to full EV car.
    Hoping to get Mach-e soon.

    IMG-7187.jpg IMG-7190.jpg
     
  2. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Senior Member

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    Let us know your experience with the Ford dealer. I have read that none of them will sell the Mach-e for even close to MSRP.
     
  3. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Very nice when you can sell for a profit!
    Enjoy your new car, whatever it is:)

    A few do, but most don't.
     
  4. RobertZ

    RobertZ Member

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    You guys are right about Ford purchase experience...
    There is a real shortage of Mach-e (only small SUV we wanted, this year other than Tesla which has no Federal rebate).
    If you find a car on a dealer lot they are adding markup anywhere from few thousand to 5000-20000.

    Now some of the lower trims are easy to find and less or no mark-up.

    I got lucky and caught a dealer who has incoming car (exact color/trim) in 3 weeks.
    They are selling MSRP but their doc fee is high ($699).
    I gave them credit card for a deposit (which they have not ran yet).
    However they did send me signed sales agreement that states selling price.
    They even credited me home charger price (I am not getting a charger) to reduce car price.
    They have been great to work with so I am hoping rest of it works out well.
     
  5. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Wow, that is absolutely amazing. You are in NE so the price range should be similar to mine. The car you sold is in very similar condition as my 2017 PP Premium was but I sold it 2 years ago, so it was newer. My trade-in for the 2017 PP in 2020 was only $17000 then. But still, with all the incentives, rebate, plus tax credit, I swapped it to the new 2020 PPLE for basically no money out of my pocket. Then I sold the 2020 PP 10 months later for ~$4000 profit.

    I picked up the last 2021 PP Ltd the local dealer had in their lot in July, but I may trade it for a full BEV next year when I know what tax credit will be available on what models. But I am only going to swap it if I can make a profit from the sale. Mach-e is my top choice too, but I may consider Bolt with a max $12000 refundable tax credit, or even Leaf if the price is discounted to the level I can live with. Mach-e is kinda like my dream car, but if I can get a new Leaf with 150 miles EV range for half of the price of Mach-e at ~$18K which is what I paid for PP LE, it's hard to justify paying over $36K for Mache or any BEVs (or cars). And if Toyota's all-new bz4x expected around $37,000 starting price turns out true, it will deserve at least a consideration.

    Let us know if you do end up with Mach-e or any other BEVs then how it feels. Good luck.
     
    #5 Salamander_King, Dec 2, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  6. RobertZ

    RobertZ Member

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    You did well too on 2020 PP ...
    Honestly I only traded the Prius in due to market value.
    Punch in your 2021 PP on KBB and you would be surprised (BTW: Other sites like cargurus etc. had lower offer).

    The way I see it, I spent 19K 4 years ago, got to use the car for 4 years.
    With ~14K in profits (7500 federal credit + 6750 on PP) + original 19K = 33K.
    Adding additional 19K (for about 52K out the door) I get the latest technology and a fun car.

    Lowest priced Mach-e are ~48K - 7.5(Federal credit) = 40.5K - existing car sale/profit.

    We did consider Leaf and Bolt but not in the same category as Mach-e...
    BTW: IF you could wait till end of next year lot more possibilities. I would have loved to try out Nissan Aria or Toyota BZx4.
    However I could not wait a year because Prius sale had to happen when market is hot.
     
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  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    There's something fundamentally wrong with this picture? I'm clueless about economics, but what's going on here? Supply chain issues, financial incentives, yeah, but maybe inflation too??
     
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  8. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, after reading your comment, I did just that. at KBB. Just for fun, I used both of the PPs I have sold already as well. The milage is what would have been today if I kept the car and traded it today. What amazes me is that the value of 2017 PP has increased substantially from two years ago. As I said, I got only $17K when I traded in the car two years ago with ~40K miles. 2020 PP value increased a bit but not even close to the 2017 value. For 2021 PP Ltd, if I traded it today at $30K (lower end of the range) it will break even the OTD price, meaning I get $4500 net gain when I receive the tax credit for the 2021 income tax.

    2017 PP Premium
    Mileage: 48,000
    Very Good Condition: $22,074-$24,368

    2020 PP LE
    Mileage: 8,000
    Very Good Condition: $23,852-$25.951

    2021 PP Ltd
    Mileage: 4,000
    Very Good Condition: $30,337-$32,468

    That's the price I am finding too. For me with the current tax code, I would not be able to get an additional tax credit on a new vehicle purchased this year. I am waiting to see the finalized bill from congress. Depending on the language, I will decide what to get next year if there is a deal to be made. Just for fun, I poked around some local Ford dealers for Mach-E. I did not find a bargain like the PP, but it is not hard to find one at MSRP without mark-up. I don't want to pay extra for a longer range, but AWD is nice to have, which makes the least expensive Select trim to be ~$47K. If congress passes the current version of BBB into law, then I think Mach-E will get $7000 off (an additional $500 if the battery is US-made, but I am not sure about this). Either way, I am looking at ~$40K car which is way more than what I would usually like to spend on a daily driver.

    I know Leaf or Bolt neither is in the same class as Mach-E, but they can be such a value. Leaf if the Nissan put back similar cashback they use to have on Leaf which was as high as $6K back and still qualifies for a $7K tax credit. All of a sudden the lowest-priced Leaf S can be had at ~$16K. If I find a deal like that next year, then yeah, I will go for it without hesitation. Similarly, Bolt if qualifies for a full tax credit of $12K next year, even at MSRP, the final price is ~$19K.

    Yep, the choices are expanding. I thought BZx4 is going to be priced well above Mach-E or Kia EV6 which is another one of my dream cars, but not likely to be available in my area in quantity so will be very hard to find. But rumor is that the BZx4 starting price is to be set well below $40K. This makes the car a very attractive contender of Mach-E. No matter what happens to the market, it will be a fun year ahead for EV enthusiasts for sure.

    Yep, sounds like you timed it just right. Congratulations.
     
    #8 Salamander_King, Dec 2, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
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  9. dtsexpert

    dtsexpert Member

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    sorry for hijacking the topic, would anyone recommend EV forum that kind of up to date on the cashback/incentives dicussion?
    If used cars are still hot next year, I am seriously looking for trading my 2021 xle with a full EV.
     
  10. RobertZ

    RobertZ Member

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    You're right, it's upside-down!
    I think it's definitely supply and demand issue for the person buying my used car (they don't even get federal tax rebate).
    I believe 2017 PP hits the sweet spot of 25-27K price range people willing to pay for low milage car.
    BTW: Dealer I sold the car listed for $27,485...Ouch..
    Their data models must be predicting shortage of new cars for the next 6 months...

    It doesn't make any sense why someone would not purchase a newer model and get a tax break (new ones are 29-34K for 2022 model).
    I think the problem is one can NOT find a new car.
    PS: Keep in mind PP are built in Japan so even more short in supply (Same for Rav4-Prime, I considered that car but could not find base model).
     
    #10 RobertZ, Dec 2, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  11. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Supply and demand.
    Many factors are involved:

    1) Shortages of new cars due to both chip shortages and other supply issues.
    2) Issue #1 increases the demand of used cars, which are also in tight supply.
    3) I believe the overall demand for individual transportation options has also gone up (fewer people want to travel on buses/trains).

    So, I would say there is nothing wrong with this picture, it is simply a case of not enough supply to meet a very high demand.
     
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  12. RobertZ

    RobertZ Member

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    I am not sure there is a specific forum but search on Reddit.com.
    ON the mach-e forum I saw many discussions on new law and rebates etc.
    Join the Reddit forum for your car of interest.
     
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  13. RobertZ

    RobertZ Member

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    Salamander : You gave me an idea for my daughter who is also in search of a new car. Leaf sounds like a great deal for her.
    Unfortunately her tastes are high (Loves Acura and other such brands)...Argh!
    To Mach-e, yes 50K for daily driver is on higher side (under normal market this car should be 40-45K range).

    I believe in 2-3 year timeframe we will see sub 40K cars with federal rebate that are much nicer and longer range.
    I am going with e-AWD but small battery (211 miles, more line 140 in winter), Premium trim.
    Wife intends to drive around town 4 miles RT commute and average 50 miles a week total.
    Occasional long trip will require fast charging once anyways so getting extra 50-60 miles with LR battery (at cost of $5000) was not worth it.
    Also LR battery are impossible to find.

    There are plenty of Select models in e-AWD-SR around 47-48K), still too much money.
     
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  14. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I am with you on this. Even for the longest range, the Tesla offers, I find for my longer trips, I will have to recharge on the road. Longer range is not that important once it gets above 150 miles for me. That's why if I am buying Leaf, I'd rather save $3K by opting for the standard range of 150 miles rather than going for 230 miles of Plus trims. I am going to wait at least until I get the $4500 tax credit back on my PP purchase this year. That will put me sometime next Feb or later for the timing of my next purchase.

    A lot can happen by then. I may decide to keep the PP for my daily driver and upgrade our Pathfinder Hybrid. The only thing is that I will not get a premium trade-in allowance on 8 years old PathHy and currently there are no good choices for a replacement SUV/minivan with equivalent size as Pathfinder. Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid (PHEV) is the only option for now.
     
  15. Colorado Boo

    Colorado Boo Member

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    Yep the car market, both new and used, is insane right now. Some YouTube mechanics started selling their used car inventories and are making a killing.
    I heard of one guy selling his 2-year old Toyota Sienna van for $4,000 more than what he paid for it!
    I did a KBB price estimate on my cars and very surprised....
    2014 Tundra (I paid $38k for it in 2015): $41.6K
    2017 Prius (I paid $21K for it new): $26.6K
    2021 Prius AWD (I paid $26K for it new in July): $30.5K

    Mechanics are saying they are very busy right now as folks are being diligent to take care of their cars to make them last! Smart!
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I happen to have looked into the inflation rate for 2017 to 2021 recently. It was 12.8%. It would be less in the time frame @Salamander_King sold his 2017 to the offer posted for it today. That rate would be less for those two years, but using it, the $17k he got for it back then would be $19,176 in inflation adjusted dollars.
     
  17. triggerhappy007

    triggerhappy007 Active Member

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    Congrats on the trade in price. Enjoy the transition to full EV. I traded my Prime to a Leaf at the beginning of 2019 and haven't looked back.

    I thought the home charger is included with the car. How much of a credit did you get?
     
  18. Storm88000

    Storm88000 Member

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    Carvana offering me like $28k for mine,

    i am thinking about it. It just keeps going up in value to them.
     
  19. MalachyNG

    MalachyNG Member

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    Great time to sell if you don't need to replace it right away. But remember, your trade in value is going up along with the prices for all used cars (and new, with dealers makeup) so you can get a great price on your trade but you'll be taken to the cleaners in purchasing another car too. And you may have to pay tax on any profit if you're getting more than you paid for the car.
     
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