Goodbye Religion

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by qbee42, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. markderail

    markderail I do 45 mins @ 3200 PSI

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    Actually not over the top. The current Catholic Pope, Benoit, has ostracized the gay community from the Catholic Church.

    That poor young girl in Brazil that got pregnant from a family member, her & her mom told by their local priest that they are no longer welcome until they confess and admit their crime unto God. The Bishop supported the priest when it went public. The current Pope shrugged it off.

    Those two specific things destroyed years of positive efforts by various Catholic related support groups.

    It's because of religion that wars have been raged throughout history. Bishops with too much power, abusing it. A Pope managed to get an English King pissed off enough to start the Anglican Church.

    A German King using the Protestant Church to gain control in his country away from Rome, destroying & killing untold innocent Catholic monks. Or were they so innocent?

    Yes, it is correct and sane to question religion, to rise up and be vocal when they are being unjust, immoral, insane.

    I have grossly oversimplified the above examples; nothing concerning religion & history is back & white, good & bad. Hundreds of shades in between.
     
  2. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    Thanks for the insight.
    Never knew about De Colores before reading this post.
    It's amazing what you can learn at a Pancake House!... :)
     
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  3. markderail

    markderail I do 45 mins @ 3200 PSI

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    I actually wanted to rainbow my Prius, but decided against. Already the car is considered and ridiculed by many as being effeminate. I already have hundreds of hits, dings from kicks, rocks thrown, SUVs on purpose hitting my car in parking lots.

    Imagine a rooster with rainbows on a Prius! Or just the word rainbowed. I fear my car wouldn't last very long in my SUV/rich neighborhood.

    I'd surely be shot at driving through some parts of Texas...Though ironically Cursillo is strong there.

    Oh, if any anti-gay religious board member reads this, you are wrong. Read up on what Jesus did/said to bigots (aka Jewish spurning non-Jews). That YOU :love: can learn to love all of God's creations, homosexuality included.
     
  4. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    Are you saying love thy person, hate the sin?
     
  5. markderail

    markderail I do 45 mins @ 3200 PSI

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    Spidey - how do you interpret what I said above, anywhere, that you conclude as "hate the sin?".

    That homosexuality is a sin is a great Christian debate, sometimes heated, much like abortion. Until the "rape pill" aka The Morning After pill was invented, many Christian women suffered - either way they decided. That pill isn't available everywhere.

    A pregnant teen needs support, not dogma shoved down her throat.

    Sin is associated with danger; either to yourself physically or to your soul. I honestly do not believe homosexuality dangerous to anyone.

    There is no need to hate anything; one can dislike. Hate is a strong word, the opposite of love. I dislike bumper-to-bumper traffic.
     
  6. robbyr2

    robbyr2 New Member

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    If religion is so bad, why does anyone care that the Catholic church says a gay "lifestyle choice" is wrong? Isn't it a good thing that this Brazilian girl doesn't have to associate with the Church, which has long forbidden abortion for any reason? I disagree with both positions and I don't really care what the Catholic Church has to say about anything. Why should I defend your straw man?

    Anyone who claims, as so many do, that religion is the cause of all wars hasn't studied history very deeply. Religion has been an excuse for war, but the cause of war is always a question of money and resources. The abolition of the monasteries is one of the best examples of the use of religion as an excuse to redistribute resources.

    It is never right to belittle other people whether because of their race, ethnicity, national origin, sexuality, sex, marital status, or religion (or lack thereof). That de-humanizes them and allows them to be treated as inferior and/or worthy of extermination.

    It may be okay to argue ideas such as religion or irreligion, but doing so online is unproductive. The internet is sufficiently anonymous as to virtually require the creation of straw men since you cannot address all of the different viewpoints of theists or atheists.

    Oh, and traditional religions are losing hold. Unfortunately it appears that the religion of Self, not atheism, is the big winner. And that should worry everyone.
     
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  7. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    Well said.

    We often don't know who we are talking to on the internet that well. That and the feedback is more limited than face to face. The result is arguments are often too frequent.
     
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  8. markderail

    markderail I do 45 mins @ 3200 PSI

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    Thanks guys, we're getting somewhere now. Religion of self is perhaps not the best words; worship of self perhaps? Or worship of the family unit?

    Online, when everyone is civil, and can think, submit, edit, submit, can sometime produce some pearls.

    Not wanting to be loose with the definition of the word religion. I've read many people saying that the Catholic religion is a cult, and others say Jehovah Witnesses a religion.

    I'm more interested in what a religion does for humanity; so that others see worth in it.

    One must also consider that many churches use up valuable property yet pay no city or state/province taxes. They pay only for services - like electricity & trash removal.

    Most cities cannot afford to feed & house the homeless; many of which are boys & girls, in all age groups. Religion isn't helping them, non-profit Orgs are.

    I've sat in on a few, they refuse to start meetings with a prayer, since their clientele is diverse.
     
  9. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    In some ways, internet discussions are better than face-to-face. For one, it's likely none of us would be talking to each other at all, if we restricted ourselves to those we know from our own locales. For another, the conversations can be more focussed on one subject, and you can think about them for awhile and come back to it anytime.
     
  10. priuscritter

    priuscritter I am the Stig.

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    i think she needs some of both. and so does he. i'm all for the families being supportive, churches being supportive, and so on. I'm not so keen on the government being supportive. compassion is needed but we have to be careful not to glorify it. i've seen far too many teenage mothers in my day, and far too many other girls think it's somehow cool.

    Not to be confrontational, but don't know if I agree with that definition of sin. Where'd you get that one? It was my understanding that sin is that which is in violation of God's law.
     
  11. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    Concur....however (comma!!) GOD's law is GOD's business, and while we're to "be about our Father's business", MY duty as a Christian is to obey Christ's teachings.
    You know....that whole "Love thy neighbor" and "Judge Not" thing.

    Face it. We (most of us here) live in a country where there are GOD given, Constitutionally protected rights. The thumbnail on this is you have a right to be wrong, insofar as this does not infringe on someone else's rights.
    Yeah, right.
    Easy to say......Not so easy to DO with 300+ million's rights to consider.
    I've repeatedly sworn an oath to GOD as a military service member to protect said rights, to obey the orders of the CINC, yaada yaada.
    Note to non-theists: You don't have to swear an oath to GOD, but it is still optional as of my last re-enlistment.
    OK...so once you get past Life, Liberty, and cable TV for the incarcerated....there is supposed to be a clear and thick firewall between Religion, and Government. We haven't always got that right, just like we mucked up slavery, women's rights, and a raft of other things that we're dealing with.

    Marriage is a perfect example of this principle.
    It's supposed to be a HOLY institution between a man, a woman, and GOD. Period.
    What we Christians have done is to pervert this into an institution where it now involves income tax rates, hospital visitation rights, insurance beneficiary policies, and ten zillion other things that have nothing to do with the ordanance of wedlock.
    Christians are mute when atheist marries atheist, or Muslim marries Jew (I'd like to get an invite to that reception! ;) ) or when some TV reality show comes along to showcase over the top, six-figure ceremonies where GOD is hardly given a mention.
    However (comma---pause for effect) you let Adam "marry" Steve, and NOW we're all of a sudden supposed to get our knickers in a knot over the travesty of sullying the holy institution of marriage???
    Really????
    And we wonder why the atheists of the world would dare to call us hypocrites?????
    That isn’t on the Atheists or the Homosexuals.....That my brothers and sisters is on us.
    As for myself....(and only myself) I will continue to serve my Lord and my country. Imperfectly... :usa2:

    I see no conflict with separating those two assignments.
    That's my rant for this evening. (so far....)

    Ship is rigged for Heavy Seas......
    Awaiting counter-battery.....:cool:
     
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  12. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    A Thiest that is logical and respectful of others views in a forum! I don't know how to deal with that.:D

    J/K...sort of

    I do disagree on marriage being a holy institution. Marriage has been around longer than any mainstream religion in the US.

    What we need is for churches to be able to perform legal marriages with any silliness or restrictions they want to impose as long as it's legal. If a church doesn't want to perform a same sex marriage, that's fine with me.

    Then we need civil marriages where the church has no business sticking it's nose.
     
  13. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    Try it yourself .....if they ever let me into the Political forum and we're talking about taxes that is.... ;)

    People can disagree...agreeably.
    The author of the quote in your signature and I would agree on practically nothing WRT government issues BUT....he earned my respect by eschewing personal insult, and much of the other ugliness that we find in political discussions today and 220 years ago.
    Rest in Peace Senator.... THANK you for your service.:)
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    not sure how christians perverted marraige into income tax rates, hospital visitation rights etc.? i thought politicians did that. :)
     
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  15. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    This is good. I like the imagery.

    :D

    Mk-48 on the way...

    Tom
     
  16. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    I did 2 tours in the USA FA. Each time I had to do the oath I very politely didn't say the last part. Just said "so help me".
    "Straight at 'em, sir?" "Yes Mr.Mowett , straight at 'em." :D
     
  17. Rocco42

    Rocco42 Member

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    All I know is that god is nothing more than dog spelled backwards.
     
  18. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    Very astute!
    I like it when somebody comes along with a highly compelling and well thought out argument that makes me reflect on my core beliefs. :D

    Well done, sir (or ma'am!)
     
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  19. drees

    drees Senior Member

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    True. But what if our money read "In Flying Spaghetti Monster We Trust" or "In Allah We Trust" instead of "In God We Trust" - how would you feel?
     
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  20. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Maybe the best answer is not to change it, but to add to it. I've always liked:

    In God we Trust - Everyone else must us this as valid currency.
     
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