1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Goodbye Religion

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by qbee42, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    2,766
    1,510
    0
    Location:
    Lewisville, TX (Dallas area)
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    ^ practiced improperly
     
  2. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,073
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said “Stop! don’t do it!†“Why shouldn’t I?†he said.
    I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!†He said, “Like what?â€
    I said, “Well, are you religious or atheist?†He said, “Religious.â€
    I said, “Me too! …Are you Christian or Buddhist?†He said, “Christian.â€
    I said, “Me too! …Are you Catholic or Protestant?†He said, “Protestant.â€
    I said, “Me too! …Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?†He said, “Baptist!â€
    I said, “Wow! Me too!…Are you Baptist church of God or Baptist church of the Lord?†He said, “Baptist church of God!â€
    I said, “Me too! Are you original Baptist church of God, or are you reformed Baptist church of God?†He said, “Reformed Baptist church of God!â€
    I said, “Me too! Are you reformed Baptist church of God, reformation of 1879, or reformed Baptist church of God, reformation of 1915?â€
    He said, “Reformed Baptist church of God, reformation of 1915!â€
    I said, “Die, heretic scum†and pushed him off.. — Emo Phillips
     
    6 people like this.
  3. Corwyn

    Corwyn Energy Curmudgeon

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    2,171
    659
    23
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    IQ tests, however, are useless in this regard. Any question for which there is a significant gender discrepancy, is assumed to be biased, and thrown out. Basically, knowledge that might well be useful for determining bias, say in classrooms, is discarded to political sensibilities.
     
  4. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    4,539
    1,433
    9
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    [FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]qbee, Lutherans are more restrained.

    A Lutheran was stranded on a deserted island. Years passed before he was finally discovered. When the rescue party came ashore, the man expressed his gratitude and told them how he had survived alone for so many years. The rescue party was suspicious. One of the party stated, "No one could live on this island alone for that long a time." "But it's true," the man said, "Come a see where I lived."


    When the rescue party arrived at his residence, they saw three huts. "Ah Hah!" They said, "Here is evidence that you are not alone." "No," said the man, "let me explain. This first hut is where I lived all these years, and the third hut is where I attended church." "What then is the the second hut?" they inquired. "Oh," said the man,"That's where I used to go to church."
    [/FONT]
     
    4 people like this.
  5. Corwyn

    Corwyn Energy Curmudgeon

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    2,171
    659
    23
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Seriously? You aren't doing your persecution case much good by complaining that people are asking for a definition of a word you just invented.

    [EDIT: Seems there are examples of this word. My mistake. Not very common though.]

    The word seemed evident to me, (though tough to apply in a religous context), but not so self-evident that one is justified in taking personal affront to requests for a definition.

    By way of elucidation, would you say that Jesus 'mispracticed' Judaism?
     
  6. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,232
    1,562
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The dictionary definition was obvious to me as well. That's clearly not what I was requesting. Maybe not so politely the first time, which may explain the flippant response(s).
     
  7. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    2,766
    1,510
    0
    Location:
    Lewisville, TX (Dallas area)
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Hey, if you guys think this nitpicking and hostility is good promotion for you, pile it on.
     
  8. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2011
    3,292
    547
    0
    Location:
    2014 Prius c
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    [​IMG]
     
  9. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,073
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Oh, oh, oh...:eek:

    :tape2:

    Don't let me say something politically incorrect. Oh please don't let me say anything. This is such a set up that I can hardly stand it.

    :heh:

    Tom
     
  10. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    2,505
    232
    28
    Location:
    Chicagoland, IL, USA, Earth
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Reading the original article I was struck by a couple points, and I don't have the time now to read all the pages of comments on this, so my apologies if it's repetitive (I read the first page and the last two, as well as the article that was linked).
    1. It was written by an athiest, although he doesn't say that on the first page.
    2. Most of his anger is directed at established churches, and I think big churches are suffering, particularly the Catholic church, and its difficulty in attracting unmarried men, along with their unbending stand on some issues and molestation charges (which is again due to only using unmarried men for priests which increases their susceptibility level for abuse, IMO). BUT - I didn't see anything in the article on the demographic of new churches being started, the non-denominational churches. Most of the churches I see growing around here are not part of a major denomination, many are set up in rented space on weekends, hauling out their folding chairs, and they are seen as more dynamic. I have a friend who told me "Any church with pews is dead".
    3. They are looking at the youth - will their attitudes change when they start having kids, when their parents/grandparents die and they think of mortality issues?

    That said, you can see a clear corollary in Europe - their magnificent cathedrals, nearly empty on Sunday mornings, but filled with tourists otherwise. The church in Germany is supported by their tax dollars, otherwise it would be bankrupt as not enough people attend and donate money to carry it. I don't know if they want to be called atheists, but Europe in general I think has a larger 'areligious' contingent.


    About the IQ question, I would be skeptical of that survey. IQ is hard to quantify, and given the bell curve you're always going to have people outside the single "average" point for each side. Yes, perhaps religion is attractive/necessary for larger numbers of people struggling with lower income jobs and who find science articles difficult. But OTOH, my dad is a minister and his IQ is around Mensa levels and he enjoys reading about string theory and particle physics (obviously he has no qualms about evolution and the Big Bang either). A young colleague, one of the smarter engineers I've seen, is unabashedly religious. So picking a generality here is not particularly helpful, IMO.
     
    3 people like this.
  11. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    3,772
    936
    43
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Would you describe Atheist today as buffoons who continually commit such an egregious comedy of errors that it hurts the movement? That's how some Atheist are describing some in their own movement.

    Even Richard Dawkins is a victim . . .

    I know it's hard to define atheism but opinion across the board is that, Atheism as a whole is on the decline.

    Wayne Laugesen, an atheist and the editorial page editor of the Colorado Springs Gazette, described atheism as having a notable but brief run but also pointed out that they were committing a comedy of errors and buffoonery.

    I'm quite sure that God loves . . "the honest atheist more than a mainstream religious hypocrite, who feigns belief for practical advantage and lives in opposition to everything religion teaches."

    Other factors include . . .

    Science, 'frauds' trigger a decline in atheism - Washington Times

    .
     
    2 people like this.
  12. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2011
    3,292
    547
    0
    Location:
    2014 Prius c
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    there was a huge increase in religiousness in 9/11 aftermath, it is only natural it would go down. This is human nature, nothing to do with atheism, just saying.

    For whatever reason it considered degrading to have lower IQ; it is not, really. Majority of people would prefer an honest person with quite avg 100 IQ to some 180 IQ psychopath with no morals. Just an opinion.
     
  13. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2011
    3,292
    547
    0
    Location:
    2014 Prius c
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    how do you think it stacks up against inquisition tortures? burning crosses? (inquisition and KKK?)

    Let them be
     
  14. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    2,766
    1,510
    0
    Location:
    Lewisville, TX (Dallas area)
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Incredible: Even the leader of 21st century atheism is saying you guys clinically crazy hate is hurting your cause. And some of you will respond by piling it on - following up an EPIC FAIL with another one - that's intelligent?
     
  15. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    3,772
    936
    43
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Huh? :confused: Your response to my post is to request a quantative measurement of atrocious acts perpetrated by atheist and theist? Why?
     
  16. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    7,543
    1,558
    0
    Location:
    Alaska
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    So I read that Polly Toynbee pulled out of a debate with Evangelical theologian William Lane Craig because of his debate style? Apparently Dawkins has too. hmm
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    2,505
    232
    28
    Location:
    Chicagoland, IL, USA, Earth
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    That's assuming people even care about the "movement". There's millions of people who quietly are atheists/agnostics who don't really care if other people go to church as long as they don't try to push creationism on the schools. Some get upset if a captive audience has to listen to prayers favoring one religion (both things prohibited by our constitution). So the atheist "movement" is a very, very small part of the story of non-religious people.

    There's a big difference here. A lot of atrocities have been done in the name of religion (by egomaniacs), and a lot of atrocities have been done by egomaniacs (who happen to be atheists or at least didn't follow an accepted religion - Hitler still believed in some supernatural powers). Not much has been done in the name of atheism itself. When I think of Stalin, I don't think of an atheist per se. I just think of a crazy paranoid evil person. Communism of course suppressed religion, but didn't go on big murdering sprees based on that alone.

    Some of organized religion's biggest tragedies is due to religion being intertwined with power and government for so many centuries, so anybody with an ambition to be a tyrant or desire for money, had no problem proclaiming God is on their side and murdering others (the Conquistadors in South America, the Inquisition, Britain's treatment of Ireland and Scotland, and this last century, taking kids away from native Americans, aborigines, etc.)

    Some of the most ethical people I know are non-religious. I simply haven't seen a correlation one way or another between practicing religion and intelligence, moral behavior or income level. I've attended a variety of churches, study groups, and of course met a lot of people outside of churches. The good churches promote good moral behavior and there's a whole body of excellent work on good moral behavior, written by religious thinkers, but there's also a whole lot of people who proclaim themselves religious and blithely ignore all of that.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,073
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Religion is neither necessary or sufficient for one to be ethical. Likewise with evil.

    Tom
     
    2 people like this.
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    nerfer, i thought that that was very well said.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    6,035
    3,854
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    That's why 100% of the population in prisons and jails across the world are atheists. Oh wait...