Great Britain Fades to Black

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Apr 4 2007, 10:31 AM) [snapback]417593[/snapback]</div>

Blair didn't "give Iran 2 days" - he said the next two days would be a critical phase of the talks with Iran. He also stated at the time that he "was not looking for a confrontation". This is the result of diplomacy and international cooperation, not military strength. Most likely, they are being released due to the softening position on the Iranian prisoners in Iraq - some back-channels negotiating probably went on between Britain and the US for that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Apr 4 2007, 11:44 AM) [snapback]417604[/snapback]</div>

Agreed- it was in the news today that the US is "considering" giving Iranian officials access to the five captured Iranians. I think that there will be an announcement in the next few days that they will be released (although I'm sure that there will be no official tie-in to the release of the British sailors). That's how these things generally play out- the official pronouncements from both sides that allow each side to save face while the negotiations go back-channel. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed here. I don't think that there was any serious doubt that the sailors were going to be released.

 

"what they had to swallow"?

Did you not actually read what happened? Best case Iran simply gave in to GB and returned the soldiers. Worse case, it shows that GB is willing to work with other countries to come to a solution satisfactory to all parties, instead of going in guns blazing.

GB didn't "give up" anything in this exchange, and in fact i'd say they even gained international political and diplomatic power

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Apr 4 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]417727[/snapback]</div>

This is what everything boils down to for you isn't it? PRIDE. You casually pass judgement on these UK soldiers. You refer to them as "cowards" and compare them to "women" (whatever that means- actually, I know exactly what you are getting at, but this backwards mentality is a topic for another discussion altogether). Tell me, have you ever been in a situation where you were captured by foreign forces? Didn't think so. You are waaay out of line bashing these sailors.

I am not even going to waste my time arguing whether or not GB is fading away, as you already have your mind made up and are just looking for a fight (as usual). I generally consider myself a fairly conservative person, but your veiws on nearly any topic would paint someone of my disposition of an extreme liberal, which I most certainly am not. Your responses to any problem are never even remotely tempered. I am not trying to attack you personally, but you paint anyone who disagrees with you as a "liberal" and dismiss any idea they put forth with the same canned response of "good = evil, evil = good." There is no hope of rational discourse.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ewhanley @ Apr 4 2007, 02:03 PM) [snapback]417776[/snapback]</div>

I have voted GOP in every election since 1976. In the 2006 election I did something that I never thought I could do - vote straight Democrat. It's a protest vote, and at this point doubt I'll vote Democrat on the Presidential level in 2008.

Without getting into the gory details, Texas state politics got more extreme after GWB became President. Who alienated me the most was a former State Comptroller that talked about as diplopatically as dbermanmd...before running for Govenor as an independent courting Democrats after going to the right of the Austin Republicans backfired.

 

dbermanmd's just upset because he wanted some dead Iranians. Never mind whether or not it actually helps the captured troops, he just wanted an excuse for killing more foreigners. Much like 9/11 and Iraq - some Saudis flew a plane into a building? Cool! Let's bomb some Iraqis!

Shooting some Iranians, wouldn't achieve anything - it's just killing for the sake of killing. Much like the US torture chambers - it's just torture for the sake of torture. Makes people like dberman feel better about themselves. A demonstration that "their side" is more powerful. Some sort of primitive ape instinct, I imagine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KMO @ Apr 4 2007, 05:03 PM) [snapback]417834[/snapback]</div>

The US has torture chambers? We don't even know what the word means. We must have imported them from Vietnam or got them as war surplus from Saddam Hussein. For a definition of torture ask the guests of the Hanoi Hilton. I'm sorry but being naked in front of a female soldier is not torture. Having your arms tied behind your back until your elbows touch is torture. Having your arms tied to a ceiling fan and your legs held while the fan turns until your back is broken is torture. I suggest watching more programs on The History Channel to discover what the rest of the world over time considered torture.

Did you watch Monty Python's skits about The Spanish Inquisition? For torture they made someone sit in "the comfy chair" while being poked with soft pillows. All the time yelling, "CONFESS!" at the hapless victim. I suppose today's bleeding hearts would call that torture, too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimN @ Apr 5 2007, 05:43 AM) [snapback]418061[/snapback]</div>

I know. I suggest you learn. You live in a soft fluffy cloud of denial.

Try this one, for starters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagram_tortur..._prisoner_abuse. Prisoners being chained to the ceiling and being beaten to death.

That's the thing about you lot isn't it. You don't actually care how many people die or suffer, as long as it's your side inflicting it. And if any evidence does come up, you just deny, deny, deny. Because you want it to keep happening. Sick bastards.

Hey, I'm not downplaying it. It's your elected leaders who have managed to kill 650,000 Iraqis, displace millions, and bring an entire country to its knees. Compared to that, your losses of a few thousand people and a couple of tower blocks are pretty insignificant, so you can't really expect much sympathy.

 

"perhaps the next time britain or france or old europe calls for help - it should not look this way"

From memory it is the US government that came to the UK for help and we gladly stood by your side to give a good show of union against terrorism. The world has changed and the next nuclear weapon delivery will be a future car bomb, just as the attacks of 9/11 did not involve any military hardware. Sorry to say that the biggest navy in the world won't save you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Apr 5 2007, 07:36 AM) [snapback]418120[/snapback]</div>

Berman, please post some facts that haven't already been refuted to support these ideas of yours. G.B.'s armed forces are along side ours in Iraq, and you're calling them worthless... go take their place then. G.B. is strategically mothballing parts of their fleet to make way for newer, more powerful aircraft carriers, the de-facto supreme military striking platform. When was the last time G.B. had to defend itself? Maybe you're talking about that pesky little war where Germany took over all of Europe and G.B. was the last holdout?

You say G.B. and Europe shouldn't look for help from us... but who has been helping us in Iraq?

Sacrificed all of those men and women last century a waste? You are referring to the war we entered after we were viciously attacked, right?

Berman, pull your head out of your butt and actually think things through for once.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KV55 @ Apr 5 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]418135[/snapback]</div>

Hey KV55--
The US government did indeed ask for your country's help. I say thank you for being a great ally, especially with the aftermath of 9/11 and Afghanistan. Most of us understand that and don't forget it; don't let the evil doctor give you a different opinion.

Of course, many of us also wish that our government hadn't decided to do something about Iraq...wish that Iraq hadn't been on Dubya's radar. Oh well...

And, again, glad your sailors are home now!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Apr 5 2007, 11:06 AM) [snapback]418179[/snapback]</div>

you see evil and call it good- you see good and call it evil :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Apr 3 2007, 06:05 PM) [snapback]417268[/snapback]</div>

Well said.

Correct me if Im wrong but I remember others in another past thread compairing Iraq conflict to the Veitnam conflict......

PS. I want what ever PG had before the avatar was taken!

 

I think i saw that too... something about how the liberals are going to make us "lose" in Iraq just like we "lost" in vietnam... I'll give you three guesses who said it... you probably only need one