Hands Only CPR

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by GrumpyCabbie, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    An advertising campaign is hitting our screens over here at the moment suggesting that CPR should now only involve pumping the chest.




    Why the change? I remember right from school that you always had to alternate between pumping the chest and blowing into their lungs. Is the new way more effective or is it just to avoid people catching diseases with mouth to mouth?

    What's the rules in the US?

    p.s. I do like them using the beat to 'Stayin alive' :D
     
  2. R-P

    R-P Active Member

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    Not US, but Holland: it's been taught like this for many years now (5?).
    Theory, I think, is that the heart is the essential part and compression causes some airflow anyway.

    I know from practice dummies that the new method is much more practical. Moving position and alternating between blowing air and chestcompressions has you exhausted after a few minutes.
     
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    The reports here over the last year or so are that the hands only method produces a higher survival rate. Still miserably low, but not as bad as the traditional method.
     
  4. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    As mentioned above, it was found to be more important to keep constant blood flow, as the blood's oxygen content does not diminish as rapidly as previously thought. The chest compression's also provide a minor amount of O2 to the lungs. For Workplace CPR, rescue breaths are still recommended, although the first two are omitted.
     
  5. RRxing

    RRxing Senior Member

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    I'm still hearing that the survival rate is only around 10-15%, and that's with CPR started immediately.
     
  6. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    It's being taught that way over here too. For most CPR situations there is enough air in the lungs to keep someone going, as long as you can keep blood flowing. The average person doing CPR has a hard time doing both compressions and breathing, plus there is the worry about disease, so the focus is now on compressions only.

    Obviously this doesn't apply to drowning or other lack of oxygen situations, and the traditional method done by a skilled person is still better.

    Tom
     
  7. kirkrv8

    kirkrv8 New Member

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    Just took a CPR class the instructor taught us just compressions
     
  8. jcgee88

    jcgee88 Member

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    I took a CPR class two months ago as part of a course to be
    certified as a first responder. The above is NOT what we
    were told.

    They taught us to do compressions-only, only if:

    You do not have a pocket mask or barrier mask to prevent your
    lips from coming into contact with the patient's body fluids (you
    might still take the risk if it is a close relative or your child);

    Or, you don't feel comfortable doing rescue breaths or don't know
    how to.

    --

    Otherwise, the standard "2 rescue breaths followed by 30 compressions"
    (then repeat) is the normal protocol.

    Correction: if you give rescue breaths, it should be 30 compressions
    followed by 2 rescue breaths. Source: 2011 American Heart Association
    Basic Life Support Manual, p27.


    I carry a pocket mask in my car, and a barrier mask on my key chain.

    As far as survivability is concerned, they use a table which says that
    the percent of success is proportional to the time delay before CPR is
    given to the patient. In other words, if the patient goes into cardiac
    arrest, and you start CPR immediately, the chances are 100% s/he
    will survive*. If CPR has been delayed 5 minutes, then the chances
    are 50%. If delayed 10 minutes, the chances are zero. Obviously,
    this table is more a guideline than a rule because people die even
    when CPR is administered immediately, and there are rare cases
    where people have been revived beyond 10 minutes.

    *I wanted to clarify this. The table didn't imply that if you start
    CPR on a person who just suffered, say, a cardiac arrest that he has
    a 100% chance of survival. The table's message was that if CPR
    could have revived a patient then the chance of success declines
    linearly (to zero at 10 minutes) the longer you wait to administer CPR.
     
  9. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I'm guessing the advert is aimed at the general public who are unlikely to have a pocket or barrier mask.

    I didn't realise the chances were so 'good' even 5 minutes after the arrest. I guess if you see someone collapse you'll ring the emergency services who will talk you through what to do if you're not sure. Then I guess you start "on the sovereign" as soon you're able.

    Maybe people are happier to do the this than mouth to mouth?
     
  10. JSH

    JSH Senior Member

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    CPR alone has a very low survival rate. When you do CPR you are only continuing to circulate blood and oxygen until advanced life support arrives with a defibrillator to shock the person's heart back into action.

    • Bystander CPR has a survival rate of 6%
    • Bystander Compression only has a survival rate of 4%
    • CPR + defibrillation within 3-5 minutes has a survival rate of 30%.
    I recently recertified my CPR for the professional rescuer with AED. At that level we where still taught to do compressions with rescue breaths. However compression only was also discussed and is a valid method when you do not have rescue gear. Our instructor mentioned that the American Red Cross will most likely move to compression only CPR next year.

    That makes sense when you think about the mechanics. Air is 21% oxygen. Exhaled air is only 16% oxygen.

    With rescue breaths given by mouth or with a pocket mask the patient is only getting 16% oxygen. However, in order to give those breaths compressions have to stop. It takes the average person 15 - 20 seconds to switch from compressions, give two breaths, then back to compressions. That is just too long.

    With compression only CPR air is still circulating and the patient is getting air with 21% oxygen. When you compress the chest you are not only compressing the heart to move blood but you also compress the lungs and move air. You are essentially giving the patient 100 shallow breaths per minute instead of 6 deep breaths AND you can maintain the recommended 100 compressions per minute.

    Even though the odds are slim do CPR anyway. As my instructor said, when someone goes into cardiac arrest they are dead. Anything you do gives them a better change at survival than doing nothing.
     
  11. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    From October 2010:
    CPR technique scrutinized - Health News - NHS Choices

    The adverts may be a follow-up to this, indicating that they have decided that the best advice to untrained people is to stick to compressions.

    However, individuals receiving CPR training may be instructed differently.
     
  12. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    So only 22% of people survive and compression only cpr increases this from 20% using the older mouth to mouth technique. OK it's only a 2% increase but it's a positive figure and very important if that 2% happened to be you or your family.

    Perhaps Joe Public is more likely to get involved with chest compressions rather than mouth to mouth, which personally I would be uncomfortable with. With the former you can (usually under phone guidance) crack on rather than worry about touching someones mouth - esp if they'd been sick or similar.

    Looks like everyone's a winner with the newer system then.
     
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