Has anyone installed the BT Brace on the 2006?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(electricity_guzzler @ May 11 2006, 10:07 AM) [snapback]253421[/snapback]</div>

And conversely do you know for sure that none ever have?

Your logic is flawed and works equally well against you.

You also proceed to say that since we cannot test the tue effectiveness of hte stock brace we should just beleive that it is sufficient. Well, once again you reasoning works agianst you. If what you say is to be held as true, then I could say that since the BT brace is obviously stiffer, just accept the fact that it does the job better. Just believe it.

Further, I have to agree with others here. You made it clear that you don't want to buy one. Fine. No one will argue with you on that. That is your choice. But why do you insist on trying to convince us all that it doesn't do anything when as far as we are concerned it does quite a lot. As jbarnhart pointed out, you have no experience with it at all. How can you profess to know so much when you've never even seen on in person.

I and many others know it works, because we all have one on our Prius. You don't. You have nothing upon which to base your arguments. Zero. We all have first hand experience. We have held both braces in our hands and compared them on AND off the car. Sure there are some who think it didn't do much for them, but they may not realize what they are looking for. I do, and I can absolutely say it made a difference. You can say nothing that isn't pure speculation.

I'm also done with this. Stop wasting everyone's time and the site's server space. Just don't buy one. Now go away.

 

ok. i'm actually getting tired of this topic also.

happy driving everyone!

 

I've read through the entire 'plate debate' and, assuming that the replacement plate is actually effective in stiffening the chassis (which, in turn, would improve handling), my question is what the long term effects of that stiffening might be.

I'm no automotive engineer but isn't there a certain amount of energy absorbtion designed into the chassis from impacts received from imperfections in the road surface? Wouldn't the Toyota engineers have taken this into account when designing the chassis as a whole and intended for the original plate to flex a (hopefully) limited amount? Won't replacing this plate with a stiffer one that has a reduced amount of flex result in transferring any shocks or vibration received by the chassis to another part of the car?

The point is, while there might be handling improvements by replacing the original plate with a stiffer one, won't it also hasten the number of squeaks, rattles, and loosening of fasteners the car will eventually have over the long run? It might not be much, but it seems like it would be worth considering.

 

Excellent questions Rudiger..

Generally speaking, you want to have a automotive structure (frame or unibody) as stiff as possible so that the front and rear suspension can absorb the imperfections in the road. When a body of a vehicle is flexing or allowed to move, then the car feels "disconnected" and actually contributes to sloppy road manners, squeaks and rattles along with other extraneous noises.

Many people that have installed our plate have commented on the DECREASE of squeeks and other noises due to the increased body stiffness. Remember this does not mean that the ride is stiffer only that the chassis is stiffer resulting in better handling and a more "solid" structure.







<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ May 12 2006, 10:08 AM) [snapback]254054[/snapback]</div>

 

Actually, when I thought about it, the replacement brace may actually be absorbing more force than the brace it replaces, simply because of the increase in mass over the factory brace, offsetting any impact forces that would normally be transmitted through it to another part of the body structure because of the increase in stiffness.

This might not be the case if the replacement brace was made of a material that allowed it to have the same mass as the factory brace but was significantly stiffer.

I guess a good analogy would be holding your hand against a solid piece of aluminum held in a vise and striking it with a hammer on the other side. You're going to feel the vibration and harmonics from the hammer much more than if a solid piece of lead of the exact same size were in the vise.

The only penalty then becomes the increase in weight the car has to carry over the factory brace.

 

Hi Elec. Guz.,

Well, I did try to accept the stock plate as sufficient when I first drove the car. But one day driving down the road at 60 mph on my daily commute with 30 mile side gusts changed my mind. I had to make 30 degree steering wheel turns back-and-forth, just to keep the car in the lane, and even with this steering, the car was just staying in the lane. It was the back-and-forth that was disturbing. The car was unstable for a period of about 5 seconds after being hit with a cross-wind gust. That was not acceptable to me. In normal weather, the car tracked straight down the lane, no problem.

After installing the plate, a 5 degree unidirectional steering input was all that was needed to keep the car centered in the lane in similar conditions. Being spring here in Chicagoland, these conditions happen regularily. I took a risk that the anectdotal comments applied to my situation when I bought the plate. But hey, they did.

Yea - I know, do not say it - anecdotal....


On your other comment I said buckling, I am not saying buckled. This I take to mean a buckling type deformation , without failure. So your question does not apply, as I am not saying the stock plate is failing. Although my stock plate had a slight twist in it when it came off - which is probably due to the built-in stress that was applied during stamping - and probably has nothing to do with the vehicle loads it was subjected to.



BT-Tech,

I gave a ride to the Chairman of the Board of the company I work for the other day. This is a guy who is used to big Mercedes Benz cars. He commented on how sturdy the chasis felt. I replied that allot of that is due to the plate I added from the a guy in Florida (you).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ May 13 2006, 07:52 AM) [snapback]254715[/snapback]</div>

Hey donee. I was hoping a stiffer suspension would counteract this, but it's been analyzed that side-winds don't affect the suspension directly. I've tested this also by just pushing against the car with my hand and it rocks as much as my previous car with subjectively better suspension, so that settles it.

On the other hand, have you tried steering with just one-hand? I've noticed I get better steering feel and control of the Prius with one hand than with both because another hand isn't there to dampen the tiny weight/inertial shifts. I can then react quicker and more precisely for these sudden steering occillations by applying just the necessary "leaning". My other hand is only there now to stabilize the steering wheel from sudden, unwanted movement.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ May 13 2006, 02:43 PM) [snapback]254797[/snapback]</div>

Hi Nushrike,

But my Prius with the BT plate does not have the sudden steering oscillations any more. With a side gust it the steering input required matches the gust now. Nothing extraneous. One quick movement in the wheel in one direction, then back to zero and the car goes straight down the lane.

Steering one-handed on the top of the wheel is slower than two-handed, I think. The force that moves the hand comes thru the shoulders into the back down to the seat. The rocking motion of the whole body has to take place before the wheel changes direction. You see allot of people drive this way. There was a famous driver in the 1910's in the USA that invented this method. But he also invented spinner knob, and use the method with the knob. Barney Oldfield. He was one of the first cross-country (across the whole USA continent) drivers. The other hand was on the shifter of course, or maybe even the spark advance (old-cars did not have automatic spark advance). The need to drive one-handed is only present in manual transmission cars these days. Good MT drivers can see where they will shift well ahead and keep both hands on the wheel when they are not shifting. And even many transmissions with the same configurations as manuals have paddle automatic shifters on the wheel, now. What was inovative for Barney Oldfield, is different almost 100 years later with power steering, no spinner knob, and automatic transmissions and automatic spark advance. Still you see allot of people driving that way, automatic transmission SUV drivers mostly, with the other hand holding a cell phone to their head. Silly.

One-handed on the side of the wheel is just as quick downward as two handed. But reversing directions of the mass of the arm is not as quick as just starting up a movement downward with the other arm, as one can open loosen one's grip on the hand that is no longer pulling, avoiding having to reverse that arm's inertia.

My Prius still rolls with a cross-wind gust as it did before the BT plate. It just doesn't go off-track in an oscillatory manner, or as far off-track as it did stock.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rudiger @ May 12 2006, 06:26 PM) [snapback]254400[/snapback]</div>

Negligible at best. THe BT plate may actually weigh less than the stamped steel factory brace.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ May 13 2006, 10:52 AM) [snapback]254715[/snapback]</div>

since you addressed me directly, i'll take the liberty to join this thread again.

you know where else i see a lot of use of anecdotal evidence? p3nis enlargement advertising.

i'm curious though how come BT Tech did not reply specifically to the concerns i raised.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(electricity_guzzler @ May 15 2006, 12:06 PM) [snapback]255702[/snapback]</div>

Why? Do find the manufacturers at the p3nis enlargement forums give you better responses to the concerns you raise?

 

I installed mine yesterday, (06 with OEM Integrities). In my 45 mile mostly freeway drive this morning, could detect NO difference in driving. Not better, not worse. I don't know what I expected, but didn't notice anything for the $$$ invested. Maybe the 06s are so good that you don't need it. The BT certainly looks stronger and "cooler" than the stock brace. I'm fairly happy with my car's handling (for what it is), but expected some increase after all the positive comments. Placebo effect? Didn't work for me, so far.

 

Yes,

I too installed mine yesterday and drove it today. I hate to say it, and I agree with subarutoo, but I didn't feel anything different either. Those were 160 bucks I could have spent somewhere else. It does look good though when you look under the car

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(subarutoo @ May 15 2006, 03:33 PM) [snapback]255830[/snapback]</div>

you mean you didn't notice the new sportcar-like handling? and the streamlining effect it does to the body-profile of the prius to make it less affected by wind? what about the wheel balancing and wheel alignment effect that makes your steering stable? probably you need to try harder. take a few more drives and you will soon feel the effects. it would also help if while you're concentrating on trying to feel the effects, you keep in mind that you paid $160 for it.

 

Yes it will get even better......I drove my 2006 for over a week over some rough roads and some twisting turning roads.....THen I insalled the brace.....

Instantly noticed the rear of the car not bouncing over rough roads. Then in corners I can now actually accellerate since the car does not lean at all. I would suggest that anyone whoe doubts the ride or handling could get better to drive the car with the OEM brace over a pre deterined course. Install the new brace and do it again.....

IT IS WELL WORTH THE MONEY!!!!


Bill

2006 Prius all options..... Seaside Pearl - we call it the Bagel since my wife refers to steering it with a wheel the size of a bagel.

 

Brian...I installed the brace on my 2006 Prius. I've been reading many comments where folks do not beleive there is a difference. I suggest that you include simple instructions so that the BRACE can be measured.

Example:

Take a country road with bumps and drive it as fast as you safely can...Note the speed and the reaction of the car especially the rear wheels (bounce). then take an off or on ramp to a highway and go as fast as you safely can. Note the lean of the car and speed.

Then do these things after you install the new brace... THERE IS A DIFFERENCE..I can go faster on the on/off ramps with much less lean. and on the bumpy roads the rear wheels no longer bounce.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BVISAILMAN @ May 15 2006, 03:46 PM) [snapback]255940[/snapback]</div>

Please, we're not here to measure the brace; people are perfectly happy with it already.

If we really wanted it measured, it would've been done already objectively with double-blind tests and g-meters at the factory by the professionals. We're here to measure our MPGs and to see how far we can go in what temperatures.

 

I installed the brace on my 2006 Saturday and have since put about 100 miles on it. I guess my comments are the changes are very subtle- I instantly forgot it was there because all of a sudden the Prius handled and responded in a more normal and predictable manner. My guess is my wife will notice it by not commenting again to me that the Prius tends to wander. I'm looking forward to a highway run in cross winds but around town I'm happy with it just for its feeling or normalicy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ May 13 2006, 02:32 PM) [snapback]254865[/snapback]</div>

Yes, I'm arguing that this prevents the "wobbling" left/right some people might experience at speed from steering overcompensation. It builds up to the point where one could hit a bump on the road, and not have to "steer" to stay straight so avoiding the creation of oscillations due to driver error with steering.

Interesting history about that spinner knob. Definitely would help keep grip on steering while performing precise, controlled steering because oscillations occur at any point, not just driving straight; much like riding a bicycle. Thanks!