Have 2008 Gen II, Gen III Plug-in on order :)

Hi Folks,

My wife and I love our silver 2008 Gen II (we call it "Budzee" after the letters BDZE on its licence plate), and it's still in great shape with only 45,000 km. on the clock. However, I'm an environmentalist and very worried about climate change, so we've ordered a Plug-in (to be called Budzee II as we're keeping the licence number) which is due to arrive late this year as a 2013.

We're looking forward to the new car and I have plans to dress it up which I'll be laying out in a separate post elsewhere on the Forum, and I'll be very interested to hear what other Chatters have to say in response.

One frustration I've had with these plans is that Toyota seems to be completely inflexible about how one can order a car, i.e. you order the model you want (in our case the Plug-in Technology Package) and it comes as it comes with no options available whatsoever!

In my estimation, one major way of improving the Gen III Prius's appearance is 17-inch wheels, and what I'd really like to put on Budzee II is the 17-inchers that come on the non-Plug-in Touring Package. By coincidence, I actually saw a silver Touring yesterday with those wheels and it looked fantastic.

But get the 17-inchers installed on our Plug-in at the factory? I've been told by our dealer that not only is it impossible to change even one item on the car before it is delivered, but if I want the dealer to replace the as-delivered 15-inchers with those lovely 17-inchers after the car arrives, it will cost $600 per wheel (including tires, I would hope)!

Needless to say, I'm not very impressed with Toyota's lack of flexibility, but we're still looking forward to getting Budzee II, and I'll take my frustration out on buying various dress-up goodies, including wheels.

Anyway, more about that in my upcoming post that I mentioned above, to be entitled "Hybrid cousins: the TS030 Le Mans prototype and my Plug-in" which I'll put in the "Gen III 2010+ Prius Accessories and Modifications" section.

Cheers!
Chris

 

Swanny,

Yes, a nice in-between model would be good. I'm not sure if I'm going to use/be aware of all the features that come with the Technology Package (that's what the Advanced model is called in Canada for some reason, maybe something to do with the French translation). However, I'm going to try using them all and make myself as knowledgable as I can about them.

I've got all sorts of ideas about modifying our PiP when it arrives (see my thread Hybrid cousins: the TS030 Le Mans prototype and my Plug-in | PriusChat), but having ideas is one thing, while actually carrying them out is quite another. Many a brave word spoken etc.!

I'm from Toronto. I just noticed that you're a fellow Canuck. Where are you located?

 

Thanks, Bisco, and all the best to you, too (and your floormats!).

 

I've been reading Gen III aftermarket wheel thread...post your pictures | PriusChat and there seem to be varying reports about how much the MPG drop is with bigger wheels. I guess I'll have to accept that it will happen to some extent but try to offset it as much as possible through weight reduction, really good LRR tires, improved aerodynamics etc. Someone said that lowering the car wil also help reduce drag, but it might create another problem because I live in The Great White North and a lowered car is more likely to become a sled in the snow.

Lots to think about alright...

 

Mark,

You're absolutely right about the 15"-inchers being more fuel efficient. It seems the proof is there, although I'm still a bit foggy as to exactly what causes the problem. The outside circumference of the tires on both 15" and 17" wheels is exactly the same, so what is it that causes the drop, and are there any ways to offset it e.g. really light wheels, really low rolling resistance tires, an aero kit (TRG claims theirs reduces drag), lighter body panels etc.

Anyway, it might be strange to some but, as stated here Hybrid cousins: the TS030 Le Mans prototype and my Plug-in | PriusChat, I want to get people thinking very differently about the Prius so that it's more attractive to them, and improving its appearance is to my mind an important part of that.

It drives me crazy that a lot of people simply reject the Prius out of hand because they don't think it's cool enough, but if lots more people could be convinced to buy a Prius, even if they all experience an MPG drop, they'd still be using far less fuel than with their present cars, and thus their combined contribution to the reduction of CO2 into the atmosphere could be quite significant.

I just want more (way more) people to buy a Prius.

 

Mark,

Here's a couple of more thoughts on all this.

Just yesterday I came across an interview with Toyota President, Akio Toyoda, in the Feb. 27 2012 edition of Fortune magazine and found this part of it of particular interest:

"As you know, our cars are evaluated as good, not emotional. I think it is possible for Toyota to improve upon the emotion of cars. There are capable engineers who are about to do that. So what I think is needed is to really have a champion to encourage people to take action on that."​

And in this June online article about a visit to Toyota's Calty Design facility in California, I found this:

[Calty's president, Kevin Hunter] pushed to the heart of the matter and focused on what ... many pundits... believe to be the main cause of Toyota's recent loss in market share: design. ​

​

Kevin illustrated how in recent times Toyota has positioned itself as "the department store" of cars—selling vehicles that meet a need, but are more or less appliances of transportation. "We got lost chasing market value," he remarked, "but we're going to try to restore our image as an exciting car company." ​

​

Encouragingly, it looks like things are about to change for the brand. Standing alongside key Toyota/Lexus designers, Kevin spoke of the company's intentions to turn things around—designing cars with passion, emotion and style.​

As you might know, Akio Toyoda is a racy kind of guy (he likes to do a lot of test driving), so I wonder if the TS030 racing effort (the team’s motto is “Raising the Excitement”) is a part of this quest for Toyotas with more passion, emotion and style. If so, that's even more reason to make the connection in people's minds between the TS030 and the Prius.

Whatever Toyota’s plans are, there’s no doubt that emotion can play a huge role in how people make decisions about what car to buy. Although the Prius has been a great success thus far due to people like us making a decision to buy one based on rationality alone, I think a Prius with more "passion, emotion and style" could attract even more buyers, and by adding a few mods to my PiP, I hope to do my bit to help change how people think about the car.

As for the mpg issue, I’ve done some looking around online and found these comments from a couple of sources (Prius Chat and TDI Club):

1. Larger wheels have a higher moment of inertia. This means it takes more energy to get a 17" wheel to roll than a 15", and also to stop.
2. [Talking about larger diameter wheels with wider tires as well]: The effect of the wider contact patch is negligible. The majority of the [mpg] hit people take is from the larger wheels generally being heavier. The extra rotating mass effects mileage an order of magnitude more than a "larger" contact patch. Keep the weight of the wheel/tire combo about the same as the smaller set and you won't see much difference.
3. I have to agree with the heavier rotating mass = less mpg. I added the Audi TT brakes front and back, and saw a slight reduction in mileage. I had already put on 16" wheels on the car. By switching to lighter 16" rims, I negated the mileage hit from both the heavier 16" rims and the larger brakes.
4. I can't help with 17's or larger, but I took a 2 mpg hit going from 15's to 16's. I got that hit back by going with lighter wheels, dropping down to wheels that weigh 12# each. The tires had no effect [because] I kept the same OD tire brand/compound and tread width on the pavement. Check the weight of the wheels.

So it seems that some if not all of the lost mpg from bigger wheels can be offset by keeping the wheel weight as low as possible and, of course, getting really good LRR tires as well. And that’s the way I’ll have to go if I want to sleep at night (but be really cool at the same time!).

Cheers!
Chris

 

It's my racing background that's making me do it!

 

Mark,

Thanks for the encouragement to spend, spend, spend (yeah, thanks a lot!).

I reckon turn signals on side mirrors should be the law, but until that time I'm sure all the folks you drive by in the bike lanes will be grateful that you spent that money (and as I remember, those lights aren't cheap). Maybe Toyota in its wisdom will put them on 2013 models, but I'm not holding my breath.

Wink on!

 

Bisco,

"Sua"? Must be some secret PriusChat language. Can you translate?

 

Ah, yes, that sua. I removed the shag rug from under the pedals, had the gas pedal shortened, and no more problems!

 

The TS030 is the best-looking diversion I've seen in a long time.

I never had a throttle stick open on the track, although I think I had a throttle cable break once. No worries there!