HCH real world numbers

Yeah I was going to say the same thing. I've driven five tanks so far on my '06 HCH and each tank was 1 mpg better than the last. I think it'll stabilize soon but hopefully it'll improve a bit more; got 42 mpg on my last tank. It's not really winter here (60-70 degrees day, 40-50 degrees night) but those night temperatures actually make a big difference so I'd probably see an improvement during the real summer. Certainly the others will; alot of drivers are driving in freezing snow.

Remember the very first cars came in in November.

 

At what point is that not true?

Honda hasn't announced their long-term plans. In fact, the only thing we know currently is that quite a few less Civic-Hybrids will be available for 2006 (28,000)than there were for 2005 (around 47,000). That supports the same reasoning. So speculations about their intentions are justified.

Meanwhile, Toyota continues to expand their hybrid offerings.

 

What ya smokin John? I'm talkin about Nissan?

Anyhow, Honda has more distinct hybrid models than Toyota. But who cares really?

 

My question was valid and quite relevant. But yet again, you intentionally avoided providing any answer and responded with an insult instead... your standard response in defense of Honda. Let's try to be objective.

Regardless, the "distinct" reply isn't even correct. Insight, Civic-Hybrid, and Accord-Hybrid is only 3. And with so few Insight last year (only 150 in the US), it is basically just a token. Nonetheless, Toyota will provide the following hybrids in 2006:

Prius (midsize hatchback)
Highlander-Hybrid (standard SUV)
RX400h (luxury SUV)
Camry-Hybrid (midsize sedan)
GS450h (luxury sedan featuring rear-wheel drive)

That's 5.

It's 6 if you include Estima (the Japan only hybrid minivan) too.

 

I wasn't aware you asked a question John. I thought you were just on again. And anyhow, I'm still waiting for an answer as to why they sell Priuses with 16" wheels in Europe (surely you don't think I've forgetten).

Anyhow the Camry-Hybrid isn't for sale yet.

The GS450h isn't for sale yet.

The RX400 == Highlander hybrid. Not distinct. Same platform.

 

So, we are suppose to believe you didn't see this...

At what point is that not true?

I'm not buying that for a second. It was the first sentence in my reply and it stood alone, all by itself. How could you possibly miss it? Anywho, put differently, the question asked how you could justify a double-standard. If Nissan & Honda both deliver less than 30,000 hybrids (or so) per year, what difference does it make what their intentions are?

Ford announced they are striving for 250,000 per year by 2010. If we see continued volume increases to reach that goal, kudos. If not, we question why. Since Honda actually decreased their volume, we most definitely question why. And because they did, we are. (Oddly, this isn't actually off-topic either. We are still discussing HCH numbers. Production volume has more profound of an effect on the market than MPG.)

 

Don't buy it then John. I'd wager that production is down because it's the first year of a new model, a new system, and they just launched it late November, when most new models come out sometime in September. So not only are they using a new system, in a new model, they lost a few months.

And dude, lay off the caffeine or crack or whatever!

 

I have begun building a simulator for the 06-HCH & the data I have thus far gives me the following MPG figures for an 88 ºF day with AC set at 75 ºF & no winds:

I added the 05-HCH & the 06-PRIUS for side by side comparisons under exactly the same environmental variables I input for the 06-HCH.


MPH.......05-HCH.......06-HCH......06-PRIUS
45..........55.39............62.54...........68.14
50..........53.14............59.75...........65.52
55..........50.02............56.02...........61.79
60..........47.37............52.84...........58.62
65..........43.92............48.82...........54.42
70..........41.06............45.50...........50.94
75..........38.37............43.42...........47.66
80..........35.87............39.56...........44.60

Regards,
Wayne Brown -- http://privatenrg.com

 

looks as if honda has made good progress on the HCH... still doesnt match the Prius and the Prius is still bigger?? dont really know for sure on that... how is the size comparison?

the hatchback design of the Prius makes it very versatile for many different applications. instead of mounting a bike rack, i can put my bike in the back... that was cool

 

Well, keep in mind that the Prius technically is also a compact. It skirts it's way into the midsize category because the hatch area is considered part of the interior and adds to the interior volume

 

Right, but most cars do have a separate cargo area. This is one of those areas that hatchbacks have always had a bit of an advantage in. (Cue for John to now accuse me of subverting Toyota somehow). The Prius is listed on Edmunds as a compact sedan, and rightfully so, even though the EPA certifies it as midsize.

Look at the previous generation Ford Focus for example. The sedan was *definitely* a compact, as anyone who had ever had the misfortune to be stuffed in the back seat could tell you. The Focus wagon was listed in Edmunds as a compact wagon as well, altho according to the EPA it is a midsize, which would absolutely astound anyone who had the experience of having been crammed into the back seat. It was just the change in volume by removing the trunk and making the entire vehicle one big cargo bed that changed the rating.