Head to Head C-MAX MPG shootout vs. Prius liftback & Prius v

Keep in mind that in this test the Prius liftback was a Five. While the OE Toyo tires don't ruin fuel economy like aftermarket tires do, they still drop it a bit.

Good test by Wayne and crew as usual.

 

It appears Ford really has no clue about how bad their MPG claims will be. When you consider that just about any one of us here can get into a brand new Toyota and meet the EPA ratings in a test drive, but cant do the same in the Fusion/Cmax, and Ford pretty much sticks by the line, YMMV, and refuses to acknowledge that these cars cant meet the expectations, it will bite them in the nice person.

I have been a long time Ford advocate, but as of today, I will NOT ever recommend a Ford, to anyone. When they totally ignore the fact that I can get into another Fusion or Cmax Hybrid and get over 40 MPG in it without extreme P&G, and cant do it in the one I bought, and ignore the fact that all 4 spark plugs fouled from carbon at 4500 miles, with no explanation, and then tell me, sorry bud, no problem found, the service engineer got 40 MPG in it. Forget the fact to do so you have to do extreme P&G, pissing off other drivers, and putting you and your passengers at a risk. Sorry unacceptable. If it wasn't for the fact I will lose $5K on this car, and one other thing I should not mention, it would be gone for a Camry.

It appears Ford built the Cmax/Fusion Hybrid to ace the EPA tests and ignored how real world drivers are, unlike Toyota. At least Toyota has their cars setup is such a way that real world economy is how they test in the EPA. Ford setup their cars so that when driven exactly like the EPA tests they achieve 47 MPG, but in the real world, there is NO fricking way they can do that. Just like a computer programmed to do a certain thing a certain way, Cars can be programmed to do the exact same thing.

Ford just lost a long time customer! So PO right now, that it took every effort in the book to keep this clean.

 

Seems like 50mph is the sweet spot for fuel economy. Pretty sad though that Ford is pushing so hard for its CMAX that really isn't worth $26,000 USD just for an extra 8mpg compared to most petrol only cars. They say the CMAX is a better Hybrid alternative to Prius, but how can it be worth it at such a price with such low figures?

 

Eco-boi,
The car will appeal to people who prioritize buying 'American' and like Ford car dynamics more than e.g. a Toyota as much as fuel economy. I think this is actually a pretty big market. As fuel gets more expensive the C-max will have a harder time competing, but I suspect that awaits 5+ USD/gallon.

All Ford really has to do is avoid their hybrids gaining a reputation in the public as not measuring up. They really should republish as 40 mpg cars.

As to your other point, I agree that the Ford hybrid has little chance competing for car buyer dollars who overwhelmingly drive on the highway.

 

I personally had considered buying the CMAX months ago, but after a lot of research decided not to. Mainly because 1. It is more expensive than the Prius 2 I just purchased at $24k with 50mpg rating. 2. It hasn't been in testing as long as Prius to weed out the kinks. 3. It is not worth the money for some "extra" horsepower I will never really need. Additionally, I have only ever owned Japanese cars and I love them. I had a 2012 Honda Fit before this. And a 2012 Honda Civic before that. Not to mention, many parts and assemblies of the Toyota line are assembled in Canada, which is still in North America. Better than China, right? I really think Ford is just putting in their bid for a Hybrid because consumers realise they can get more reliability, safety, and features for less when you buy Japanese!

 

For the features the Fusion offers, it really is a car that Toyota cant touch with the Camry, but can with the Avalon, the price difference though is at least 10K. If I wasn't losing so much on the Fusion I would be in an Avalon right now and be done with it. I just cant see myself in a Camry though, bad vibes still from the 09 I had.

If I had known, but the FFH had just come out, so no real reports on it, I would not have gone for the new model, but for the previous known good year model, and saved a few grand in the process. Its past now though, That Avalon is going to be my next car, dont know when, but it will be.

 

Buyer's report: We just bought our first Ford since 1994 - a 2013 CMax Energi. We've put our first 540 miles on the Energi and have used only 7.2 gallons of gas (a bit more than 1/2 tank). That's not that far removed from my PIP mileage with much higher range potential, thanks to its 20 mile electric range and 13 gallon gas tank. Its made in America which is a + in my book. We don't expect 47 mpg on hybrid alone, but we are seeing around 40+ in hybrid only mode.
Its both heavier and MUCH faster than either of the Prii that we have owned. My wife traded in her 2005 Lexus RX330 and prefers sitting up high - she really likes the C-Max. Our initial impression is that we both find the Energi more enjoyable to drive than the PIP. So, we are now a 2 plug-in family. Woohoo!

 

I thought my 2013 C-MAX would be a Prius Killer? NOT! As a cross over buyer I feel deceived. I want to support US companies and US jobs. What was Ford thinking when they published 47/ 47/47 estimates? I would have been ok with low 40's but 28-33 is not even in the ballpark. I have been accused of not knowing how to drive hybrid. I lease both a 2010 Prius and 2010 Honda Insight and consider myself an experienced hyper-miler. My mileage in the Prius is 50 plus, the Insight is 40 plus, The C-MAX is a great car, with extremely inflated EPA posted estimates.

Ronald Kramer
Yankee Ford Customer
South Portland, Maine

 

Ford lies

 

^^^
Currently, we have no idea whether the 47/47/47 test results are actually accurate and a result of Ford's optimization for the EPA test or whether there were inadvertent or intentional errors that caused inflated values.

I also don't know if Toyota sandbagged such as by reporting lower numbers than actual.

You might find Car and Driver: The Truth About EPA City / Highway MPG Estimates | PriusChat insightful.

 

You're not driving it right!

That is what Ford will tell you if you bring it in. They will take it for an extended road test, and will drive it until they can prove it gets over 40 MPG. They could put 300 mile on in the process, but they will come back and say, see nothing wrong.

In the same boat with a 13 Fusion Hybrid. They did that to me. However I have been very hard pressed to duplicate what they did to see the same results.

But!

I discovered what may be the actual problem with my car and that is the Battery pack! What I noticed is that when the battery is discharged from doing an EV coast, the MPG is only about 20, however as the pack gets around 75% charged, the MPG climbs up into the 30's, when after 80% its in the 40's. All this is at 55+ MPH. So if I keep the car OUT of EV at anything over 40 MPH, then I actually do see MPG in the 40's.

IOW, the EV is what is causing the poor MPG at highway speeds. Maybe there are a few high resistance cells in the pack, or the pack is out of balance, in either case, this is what I have found to be the root cause of my poor MPG.

 

hmmm ...

Fuel use to charge the battery pack is expected, and just the fact that the battery wants to live at 80% SOC sounds high to me but would not per se explain high energy consumption.

More data, please

 

If the SOC wants to be at 80% I could see that as a possible reason for low FE considering the CMAX likes to perform a weak "pulse & glide". If it tries to use battery power to boost FE for short periods then recharge the battery to prepare for another "glide" then this could be very wasteful. It's like a poorly executed pulse & glide because any time you are forced to recharge the EV battery by any significant amount you are using HP to generate electricity rather than propel the vehicle and FE suffers during this time.

I think Wayne alluded to something similar regarding the CMAX's inclination towards forcing you into EV use where you don't want it and how this hurts FE and your ability to hypermile for sure.

If Ford could just tweak the software to eliminate this pulse and glide thing it would be simple to test this idea.

 

Hi F8L,

Car programming that tends to EV and also tends to 80% SOC ? Seems to me like you have to pick one or the other

You do make me wonder though if the programming was optimized for the plug-in rather than the hybrid. Still though, we are left with the very interesting question why the EPA result appears to be inflated relative to the Prius.

 

I'm thinking in terms of my recent experience with my PIP.

With a full battery my SOC is around 80%+. With a depleted range battery my SOC is more like 24% (approx.). Unlike the non-PIP which normally functions at 50%-60% the PIP has a wide range to work with. If I play with SOC stacking I can see my mpg drop while charging back to some higher percentage. If the CMAX starts at say 80% and forces EV mode on the highway and allows SOC to drop to say 40% then during the recharge phase you are going to observe quite a drop in FE until SOC gets back to 80%.

The only way to achieve something similar in the Prius is to drive at less than 46mph and stay in EV until SOC drops to 40% then allow the ICE to fire and recharge the battery while you continue driving. Even this is not likely to be as inefficient as what the CMAX is doing due to the higher SOC default level.

In the EPA test, could it be that they are not on the highway portion of the test long enough to suffer the losses associated with the recharge phase?

 

IIRC the end battery SOC is corrected to match that at the beginning. Perhaps small errors there, but I highly doubt enough to really matter, let alone explain the apparent wildly optimistic EPA result.

 

Pretty much this. When I was taken for a ride to show me how they were able to obtain 40 MPG in the car, which BTW is Fords claim that nothing is wrong, if the car can get 40 MPG it passes, the car was driven in such a way that it was accelerated up to 60 MPH, slowly, so that the battery can be charged, then backed off until EV kicked in, then driven in EV until about 1/4 charge, which netted about 45 MPH, then back on ICE to recharge the battery and get back up to 60, which is about 3/4 charge, then the whole cycle started over again.

While doing this the ICE is only getting about 20-25 MPG, seems like going backwards.

So what I found is if I can get the battery to almost full at 60 MPH, and stay on ICE, the MPG is above 40 for most of the trip. When EV kicks in if you slow down for any reason, it will quickly drain the battery, which puts you back into the vicious recharge cycle.

What is needed is a switch to prevent EV at these speeds, I truly believe the car was designed to ACE EPA by being able to run at 62 MPH in EV for the short duration of the EPA test.

 

I think that is basically what Wayne said too. I'll try to find the link later.

I hope it is something that simple so CMAX and Fusion owners can achieve something closer to the mpg they expected. They seems like fantastic cars (other than cargo space layout).

 

The Fusion is a fantastic car, otherwise I would have dumped it long ago.