Heard from an inside source: Chevy Volt is real

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Jan 26 2007, 10:42 AM) [snapback]381056[/snapback]</div>

One of the reasons they brought the Volt out under the Chevrolet Marquee was to make a point with price..

No Chevrolet (except the Corvette, and that's the exception) starts at over 30K. I think the Volt is going to be in the high 20s, which all things considered seems fair.

 

I think A123 systems here in Boston have a deal with GM. Hard to tell how "close to market" their batteries are

As for price, I would love to see a plug-in EV40 hybrid for $20.000 but I think that is unrealistic, as people have pointed out even the Prius is more. If they put it out at $45k it won't be a huge hit but enough people will probably buy it to justify continued development.

I'm willing to pay up to $45K for a for me mainy electric car, and yes buying a used Rav IV EV has occured to me (and I saw one here in Cambridge, MA a few days ago, I wish I could talk to the owner!). With the RAV IV I'm a little concered about repair/service cost so I would prefer to buy a new(er) car that is more supported by the manufacturer.

That said I doubt this car will see the light of day, but if it does I dream they scrap that teenage wannabe civic look and sell it as both a useful sedan and station wagon. One can dream can't one?

The car is on my list, but with a lot of doubt that I will ever see it in a showroom

 

I'm trying to figure out if a123 systems need an electronic designer

/Robert

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Jan 26 2007, 06:51 AM) [snapback]381063[/snapback]</div>

Stan created the NiMH batteries that first came out in the EV1. Li-Ion is what is required for this car.

The press releases have all mentioned "mid-$20k" for this car. Basically Prius price range. If they can pull that off (with the range promised, and the quality high enough to impress me), I'll be astounded.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jan 26 2007, 11:43 AM) [snapback]381090[/snapback]</div>

And so will I! I guess I might sell my Prius and replace it with a Volt? (keep my Gem truck) Have the best of both worlds? Not sure but I guess I will worry about it if and when it ever happens.

 

At mid 20's this would be a KILLER car (as speced). I doubt Toyota can come close to it even with next gen Prius. That said I'm convinced the 09 prius will come out with improved milage and most likley a plug-in option. I'm not so sure about the volt (but I dream it will!).

For quality I think Gm has improved and wouldn't be too concerned with it (though for the same price and performance I would buy toyota any day)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BORNGEARHEAD @ Jan 25 2007, 06:39 PM) [snapback]380883[/snapback]</div>

You're right about the display model. The real thing will be quite different. (Supposedly the Aztek was almost decent looking as a display model, but then they had to put it on a minivan frame for production). Smaller wheels are almost guaranteed, that's a pretty frequent change when going into production, and probably a little tamer design, but they still would want something that stands out. Unfortunately the high hipline is the style now, so they'll probably stick with smaller windows.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Kelly @ Jan 26 2007, 03:29 AM) [snapback]381003[/snapback]</div>

First try? What about the EV1, and their billion-dollar research into fuel-cells and electrics? It's a big company, they already have the assets to produce quality when they focus on it. They just don't do it on every vehicle like the Japanese do. But it seems everybody has a 10% or 30% share in another company and some kind of collaboration, isn't GM linked with Nissan? (For importing QA people/processes, Daihatsu doesn't count).

As for price, building it as a serial-electric PHEV from the ground up has advantages - no complicated transmission, simpler electronic controls (which is becoming a big part of car development and testing).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Jan 26 2007, 10:09 AM) [snapback]381070[/snapback]</div>

Dewalt 36v power tools are using 10 cells of the A123 cells. The power output is incredible. Their cordless tools with A123 cells output more power than 110v / 20 Amp the wall can deliver (1.8x more power at 52C battery discharge). Let's just say it can run your laundry washer and dryer at the same time! They are on the market (available at Home Depot) for more than a year. The cost of the pack are about $100 on ebay, making it about $10-$11 per cell.

RC hobbyists are raving about A123 cells. If GM use these cells in Volt, 16kWh could cost about $23k at $11 per cell for the pack. We know for sure that A123 designed a bigger HV cells. Those HV cells could replace Prius' pack and weight only 20-25 lbs. Since A123 cells do not generate much heat and can discharge high amount of power, the pack might be able to sustain with passive cooling (no fan).

You can watch what A123 cells can do from a video at MIT website. Jump to around 30 min into the video. Spiderman or Batman are not amazing anymore!!

Dennis

 

I think it would be very advantageous to GM to build this car at all costs. They have earned such a bad reputation from the environmental conscience minority which is quickly becoming the majority. With such major recent blunders like smashing the EV1s, building an entire range of gas-guzzling mega-suvs, fighting fuel economy legislation, and excesive corporate greed and corruption, it will take a lot soon to make GM appeal to the average Prius driver. I will admit that GM quality (on some cars) has improved dramatically in the past few years, but they still have a lot to do to catch up with the major Korean and Japanese brands (Ford is doomed IMO). People now have the strong mindset that Toyotas have the best quality and efficiency in the marketplace and Chevys are crappy gas-guzzlers. It will take years to change that mindset now. It is that same mindset which GM claimed supposedly doomed the original EV1: customer demand. It is very ironic how they betrayed the ZEV/AT-PZEV community when not five years later, the desire for ZEVs/AT-PZEVs is dominating the marketplace. GM has the technology from the EV1, and could realistically mass produce the car for $25,000 nicely equipped and still make a profit. Evs are simple, have few moving parts, and are not expensive to build or make. The LiIon or LiP battery pack (the most expensive part of the car)could be realistically mass-produced for less than $5000 and give a range of 100 miles or more. If they make the Volt a plug-in hybrid, they better make the motor/generator easily removable and/or optional because most EV fans dont want to haul around that antiquated and expensive polluting garbage in their trunk. And hydrogen? What a joke! Even hydrogen derived from dirty fossil fuels is $8-$12 per gallon, not available anywhere, wildly expensive to store and use, and when you waste electricty to make hydrogen instead of just putting it into batteries you lose more than 75% of the energy! I hope that this pipe dream of the oil industry will go away soon as people realize the hype about hydrogen. I will plug in and charge my car with at-home solar/wind generated power, not fill up my car with dirty fossil fuel-derived hydrogen.

 

Here Here Toyotablackbox! GM got away with what they did because there were few people into thinking about electric cars. I think at least 5 things have changed that and have brought more people on board.

1. What's going on overseas
2. The gas price shooting up pretty high at one point
3. The documentary "Who Killed The Electric Car"
4. There are more enviromentalist now
5. The popularity of the Prius

People see how GREAT the Prius is and want to be in "Stealth Mode". Let me tell you it's even better when your ONLY driving in electric!

So I think the group has gotten HUGE now with all of the above. Now us that want them have to come down like a ton of brick on the automakers. FORCE them to make electric cars.

I just hope this all become a reality for you guys. I'm happy because it ALREADY has for ME! I don't car what I have to drive as LONG AS IT'S ELECTRIC. (ALL BATTERY ELECTRIC)

And if you guys know my enviromental idol Ed Begley Jr he started out back in the 70s driving a 1970 Taylor Dunne golf cart. From there he moved on to several different Nevs and is now driving a Toyoyta Rav4 EV. He was willing to drive whatever was available at the time in electric. That's why he's 1 of my only 2 idols. (DarylD is my other one) Ed even has to pedal a bike to make his toast! WAIT! I forgot about good ole Tom Hanks! He got on David Letterman and told Dave about his Rav4 and that he was saving the world by driving it! B) Youtube plug for Tom SAVING THE WORD

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Jan 26 2007, 02:10 PM) [snapback]381218[/snapback]</div>

EXCATLY how I feel except I'm driving a battery electric vehicle TODAY!! No waiting for GM or Toyota for ME! B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Kelly @ Jan 26 2007, 04:29 AM) [snapback]381003[/snapback]</div>

I think it would be refreshing if GM stopped talking so much and just *brought these things to market* and surprised us all in the process.

That is, if they *can.*

Have they never heard of the expression, "under-promise and over-deliver?"

Geez, they're talking up a storm and production vehicles have yet to be built. If they're lucky, the thing will turn out to be a decent, competent car...but they've already raised our hopes so much that we're now expecting the second coming (or something equally singular and defining). And so, if and when we finally buy one, its lack of cupholders (or whatever) becomes a bit of a disappointment...

Note to GM:
Under-promise.
Over-deliver.

Aren't they working on a perception changing campaign? This would be a good way to start.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Jan 26 2007, 11:49 AM) [snapback]381144[/snapback]</div>

Dennis, that's VERY encouraging. Do you know how quickly the degrade? How many charges can they take?
I'm sure GM can get a better list price then DEWALT. I also think the GM need to sell this car at or below cost to break into the market (much like Toyota did/does?).
That A123 exist makes me hopefull they can deliver! This car from an american manufacturer might be what's needed. I am in general a Ford person but this would squarley out me in the GM camp!

Oh! Now you got my hopes up :-(

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Jan 26 2007, 03:52 PM) [snapback]381354[/snapback]</div>

GM will announce more than the Volt very soon. It is very refreshing to read positive comments about GM coming from someone on here besides myself. As I have said before GM has drawn a line in the blacktop in and will attack Toyota on every front including the hybrid alternative fuel market. I am very excited about my GM franchises, it has been a long time coming. All it took was a different attitude at the top. It is now the competitor form Toyota city that doesn't think its s**t stinks.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Jan 26 2007, 05:52 PM) [snapback]381354[/snapback]</div>

EXACTLY what there trying to do! If GM is BSing about bringing out this Volt I think it's a BIG BIG mistake. (worse than crushing the EV1s since there's now a much bigger audience)

I think they should have had them ready to sell before they even announced it in my opinion.

So are you guys going to wait and wait and wait forever on GM? I bet that's what's going to end up happening. They will just keeping saying it's coming....it's coming.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tracysbeans @ Jan 26 2007, 04:25 PM) [snapback]381371[/snapback]</div>

Its coming sooner rather than later.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 26 2007, 06:27 PM) [snapback]381372[/snapback]</div>

I guess maybe you work at GM? :huh: So why didn't they bring them out before annoucing them? I mean GM doesn't have a very good reputation. I feel what there doing now with this Volt is making it even worse.

And by sooner you mean in 2010 right (Even if it comes out sooner than that people are NOW staying pissed at GM and not believing a thing they say)