Heard from an inside source: Chevy Volt is real

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Jan 26 2007, 04:52 PM) [snapback]381354[/snapback]</div>

The target recharge cycle is 4,000. If you use one complete cycle (fully drain) 365 times a year, the life would be 11 years. Straight from A123 Systems website, if the discharge is at 1C, Volt's 16kWh pack would output 16kW or about 21 hp. This is perfectly suitable for highway cruising. City driving may discharge at higher rate and can shorten the battery life somewhat. A123 cells perform very good in high discharge also, according to the graph. If the packs were to output 210 hp (at 10C) all the time, it will still do 1,000 cycles which is about 3 years.

Under normal driving condition, I would say 10 years is easily achievable. Of course, I am going by Toyota's definition of battery life which is at 80% of original battery capacity. It doesn't mean you can't drive anymore once you reach 10 years. You will still be able to drive 32 miles per charge and might not give you as much power but it is well expected for me anyway. There are ways to improve battery life. Volt was announced to use only 30% to 80% SOC. The shelf life (if battery does not get used) is estimated to be 15+ years for the A123 HV cells. So you are looking at durability around 10 to 15 years depending on if you use the pack or not.

A note to Prius owners who use EV mode and discharge the pack very quickly -- you may be shortening the life of the HV pack by as much as 4 times!! I don't have a similar graph for PEVE NiMH pack however, it will not be better than A123 nano Li-ion graph.

Dennis

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jan 26 2007, 04:32 PM) [snapback]381375[/snapback]</div>

Of course I understand that. You should try having millions of dollars invested in GM franchises and have to live with the management GM dealers have lived through the last 25 years. Now that is painful! I just wish I could feel the same way about Ford and DCX.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Jan 26 2007, 07:05 PM) [snapback]381388[/snapback]</div>

Well that's great because I feel that if it does come soon it will be a BIG move on GM's part and they will have people lined up to buy them. It is exactly what needs to happen for GM.

 

If they can get it into showroom before or at the same time as the next gen Prius then (if the Prius spec is true) they will have a killer product.

While a 4 seater Sedan would be great, the prius hatch back is spoiling me. I want a station wagon!



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Jan 26 2007, 05:35 PM) [snapback]381380[/snapback]</div>

That looks very impressive, assuming you can swap individual cells it might be possible to keep it running longer. If it costs close to 30 it needs to last around 10 years. I still wonder if GM really can keep big news like the as silent as they have (if something big is suppose to happen "soon"). Somehow it feels to good to be true.

I believe it when I see it, but if they start to build cars with leading technology and with the quality of resent years they will get my $$$, but PLEASE do something about the generic cheap feeling interiors of all GM cars! (That said even with a pinto interior I would buy it).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Jan 26 2007, 06:40 PM) [snapback]381435[/snapback]</div>

Thank you. The competitiion at this years NAIAS was just the tip of the iceberg! GM swept and there is much more coming!

 

I'm all for the Volt. One of the reasons so many people derided the Classic Prius wasn't just its cost and lack of performance. Its form factor made me and many others gag. It just looked like an ugly little econobox. The current Prius hatchback may not be for everyone but it invokes emotion the way any stylish car does. The Volt made me go, "Oooooh." before I even knew it was a hybrid. The Volt can go EV 40 miles in one day. That's perfect for a daily commute. Oh yeah! 2009 looks to be a good model year w/ the plug-in Volt and Prius. (The hybrid Altima should finally debut around then, too.) I wonder what Honda and Ford are up to. I hope they aren't going to let GM and Toyota have all the fun.


**SOAPBOX**
I have to correct one poster. Nissan's quality/reliability has gone way downhill since they allied themselves with Renault. (Infiniti has thankfully bucked the trend.) Moreover, GM had investments (even manufacturered for) in Subaru, Isuzu and Suzuki for awhile but divested all of them. Ford still has a MAJOR investment in Mazda. One of the reasons why the Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan combo is so reliable is that its built on the proven Mazda6 platform. GM and Toyota still have a deal w/ the Matrix/Vibe. I bet people in California hate GM so much that they would rather spend more $$ for the Toyota Matrix than the Pontiac Vibe even though they truly are the same car.

Why do so many people let Volkswagen and Daimler off the hook on hybrids but continuously bash GM and Ford?
**SOAPBOX**

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(allargon @ Jan 27 2007, 10:00 AM) [snapback]381628[/snapback]</div>

Because Ford and GM are bigger? Because VW sells diesels that get pretty impressive MPG? Because VW and DC both seem to have, to some extent, avoided trying to rely on only bigger and bigger SUVs to make their profits? Because there isn't someone here provoking a VW vs. Toyota or DC vs. Toyota flamewar like there is for GM?

I honestly don't know. If there's one car company that should be putting their money where their mouth is when it comes to energy and environmental issues, it would be Volvo, still owned by Ford I believe. But it kind of feels like they want to compete with BMW or something if their recent product line up is any indication.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Jan 27 2007, 09:34 AM) [snapback]381640[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jan 26 2007, 05:32 PM) [snapback]381375[/snapback]</div>

And, of course, there's the shake out period that a new GM vehicle has to go through where the unpaid quality control team (customers) find all of the glitches and waste their time sitting in the GM service dept's waiting rooms for those glitches to get fixed. I won't buy another car from GM until after I hear from Consumer Reports that it's as good as my Prius. It'll be great to see GM actually being in the thick of 21st century technology, no one wants them to fail, but they'll have to earn that, not get it handed to them on a silver platter.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Jan 27 2007, 05:52 PM) [snapback]381749[/snapback]</div>

Says the man who (probably) never had his Prius die on the road.

I need a T-Shirt that says something like "I was an unpaid Toyota beta tester".

 

While I'd love an EV I have a few requirements.

I don't lease. That's why I never got the Saturn EV1.

I'm not giving up my hatchback. I've owned two hatchbacks and then a coupe with a trunk. I now have a hatchback again. I am so happy. I'm a hatchback person. I'm not giving it up.

I'm not spending more than $30,000 for a car no matter what it does.

So I'll need a hatchback EV that's less than $30,000.

Whoever comes up with that first wins.

(dark blue exterior, gray interior and signal mirrors would be a plus)

If GM can bring the Volt to market in 2009-10, I'm wondering if Toyota will have a LiIon plug in about the same time.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Kelly @ Jan 26 2007, 04:29 AM) [snapback]381003[/snapback]</div>

Are you counting this one? because the Saturn Aura by GM and the Chevy Silverado have won this year's North American CAR and truck award, noticibly beating out the Toyota Camry.

I will be the first to admit huge, and potentially fatal mistakes have been made on the domestics part, but have you considered another look? Also, Kudos to toyota's marketing team, as they deserve it as one of the most skilled in the buisness. If people always blindly followed (or neglected) a brand like this, thenthe japanese would never have gotten where they are now in the automotive industry. I guess acceptance is a one way street eh?

look at this article, its also in my sig now. this data was contributed by JD Power and associates.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/23/Autos/amer..._cars/index.htm
Keep in mind though it is a bit dated and only shows american and japanese. (Oldsmobile is there, but DaimlerCrysler i guess isnt counted as american anymore.) It shows that out of the top ten above average in quality 6 are american and 5 are japanese. looks pretty balanced to me. All of Ford was in there with Lincoln, Murcury, and Ford, and GM had Buick, Cadillac, and Chevy. The rest of GM follwed beneath the industry average with Saturn, Oldsmobile, GMC and Pontiac. The bottom six are Japanese. (depending on what you count Mazda, which Ford own i think a 15 percent share of.) Again, this is a bit dated, but the Americans are getting better all the time and Toyota might even be slipping from its vaunted quality standpoint. (how many Toyota recalls this year compared to Ford or GM?) Also Oldsmobile and Isuzu are gone now i believe so that would bring more domestics above the industry average, especially factoring in that Saturn almost has an entirely new product line, (and it will soon, if you care to know.) I am constantly amazed by the sheer ignorance surrounding the domestic auto industry. Thought like this are commonly demonstrated everywhere I look. Its your own country! At least bother to look below the surface before you immedietly bash damestic cars like it had the plague. Actually, I think the amercan people would actually be more sympathetic to the plague than its own auto industry. its a sad day for the american race to see such rampant anti-american orientation. Its amazing what a change of mind set can do.

 

I've noticed that all of the GM parts that come into our dealership say "made in Korea". I laughed pretty hard when I first saw that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(porkfriedrice @ Feb 11 2007, 11:41 AM) [snapback]388439[/snapback]</div>

Being an adult means giving up childish ways.

Team sports should be one of them.

Just because I'm American I'm not going to exclusively buy only what is made in America by Americans. First, it isn't practical. Second....that doesn't promote quality, efficiency, productivity, value or many other things.

Study the communist Soviet Union. Not exactly stellar value or quality being manufactured there. They knew they had a captive market so the people had to buy what they made, no matter how bad. They could also charge what they wanted since they controlled the market.

Do we really think that would be good for the American Market? The problem with the Big 3 is that that is the mind set they still work under. They don't feel they need to make a quality product because they think some sort of mis--placed loyalty is going to save them from losing customers. Well, I want a safe car. I want a car that I won't have to fix all of the time. I want it to be efficient so I don't have to pay a lot for gas. I don't race so it doesn't need to go 100 mph or 0-60 in under 5 seconds. I just need it to be able to go up hills.

Life is not a team sport, where you go with your team even though they suck. You go with the best players that are playing the best they can, whether they are in your city, your state or your country. Do you only root for Americans in the Olympics and when that team is gone you don't watch that sport anymore? Well, I recognize when the American skaters suck and the German couple is fabulous. I vote for fabulous. If they Americans don't like it? Well, I guess they have to practice more to get good enough to DESERVE to win.

Right now, the American car companies don't deserve to win. They need to practice a lot more and get a lot better. Not bribe the judges or pay the media to write good reviews. They need to actually BE good. They need to be BETTER. When they are, I'll consider an American car.

But it better get good mileage, low emissions, hold cargo and have very little maintenance.

It will also need to have a hatchback.

In other words, it would have to be better than what I have now.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(porkfriedrice @ Feb 11 2007, 08:41 AM) [snapback]388439[/snapback]</div>

What exactly is the "[A]merican race"? Are you referring to Native Americans?

What does race have to do with car purchases? You must not be a very good student of history to have made such irresponsible remarks.

Don't you have some homework to do?

 

Hi Porkfriedrice,

There is nobody on this thread that I know has made any kind of anti-American comments. Some of us are anti-American-Car-Company-Buisness-As Usual however. Because this activty by American Car executives IS so anti-the-american-way. Whereas Toyota has performed admirably, in the US (probably not in Japan I grant you that) in line with the American-way.

Why is their an uproar about the EV-1 ? Because the Wagoner-led GM acted in totally anti-american fashion. The actions of GM in this matter were more appropriate for a Soviet era Comisar, than an American Entrepreneur. Americans abhore the blantant application of freedom-limiting buisness power. Americans love to see yankee ingenuity (even when its from So Cal) so utterly beat the rest of the world as the EV-1 did, and would be today if GM had not killed it.

What is different about the Prius from other cars are a collection of mostly American inventions put together into in one car. Why weren't American engineers funded to make the Prius first ? Because of the buisness attitudes at the head of GM and some other car companies. GM even blew-off the implied closed-door deal in the movie with CARB (Ca Air Resources Board) to come out with a Hybrid car, if they were let out of the ZEV mandate. The People's representatives spoke, a deal was apparently negotiated, and GM's executive's actions can only be intpretted as a reply to the people of "screw-you" ! Now that is their right, its does not appear to be moral (they appeared to have made a deal), but they are responsible to do what they think is right to survive as a corporation. And buying a car that has nearly double the operational mileage is the people's perogative too.

The problem is car companies are being run by people without sufficient scientific and engineering background to make reasonable judgements as to the future vehicle. Its ten years later and they are just doing the same-ole-same-ole, and crying all the way to the severance package.

I have heard this malarky about Toyota doing a magnificient marketing job. Until recently, one did not even see a Prius comercial on TV, and the cars were backordered. I guess that implies if you come out with the best car for the times and the driving enviorment, then you do not need to do any marketing. Or as you imply - no marketing, is the most magnificent marketing.

The reason the Prius is not selling as briskly lately? Because the Democrats won the election and its winter. People seem to think that their new heroes will rescue them from the incompetence and believed-in back-room dealing with buisness of the present administration. Well, this is baloney too. The Democratics have been in power when gas went to record prices, just as now it has with the Republican style of leadership in power. The only sure way to reduce gas prices is to use less. A Prius helps you do that if you have a medium range daly commute, and even though on the surface it may not seem to be a good deal at $2 / ga, if you do not have the vehicle with the mileage of the Prius, the price of gas will grow to $ 4 / ga ($10/ga if you live in Europe). And our elected representatives have determined this to be so and told us - Bush said "We are additcted to oil".

There is a shift in the world. And the US must react. GM can be part of the solution, or be part of the problem. The ball is in their court. We here choose to be part of the solution.