Hello everyone...seeking clear differentiators on ...

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by PixelRogue, May 27, 2019.

  1. PixelRogue

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    Hello everyone...seeking clear differentiators on the actual day-to-day differences between the 2019 Prius and the 2019 Prime. Not asking for the marketing literature.

    Question
    Is the Prime worth it, over the same year Prius? Yes, subjective in many ways and yet hoping there are concrete arguements going one way or the other. We are thinking of a Prius upgrade (as AppleKit finally rolls in.)


    Background
    Waited for years for the PIP to be released so I could let go of a trusty 1999 Camry. After a few years, couldn't wait any longer and purchased a 2010 Prius ///. Still going strong, love it.

    2015 we purchased a second Prius, this time finally a PiP (2012 certified.)

    I must had cerain expectations based on the 2010 Prius that everything would be the same in the 2012 except enhanced, and the 13 mile electric.

    What I discovered includes the following notable differences:

    • Next to impossible to regain all-electric mode once depleated in the PiP. It can be done, but you need a long uninterrupted stretch of downhill road. This was, and continues to be, a major disappointment in the day-to-day usage. This undocumented feature on its own almost renders regret.
    Once you leave the house and the 13 electric (which is more like 9) are gone, there is nothing betrr than the 2010, anc actually a bit worse because it will rarely regenerate. (I do hyper mile and actively regen out of habbit btw.) - when out for the day, you can't just plug your car into a friend's electric outlet, or at a store - short of using electric pumps which (in this area) are cost prohibitive.

    • We keep the PiP plugged into a 110 outlet over night. No calculation on what that really costs in terms of topping off the battery. Are there any simple formulas or spreadsheets available? When looking into this in the last, the topic quickly dives into college level engineering discussions.
     
  2. heiwa

    heiwa Active Member

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    Yes differenes between PIP and Prime are worth considering upgrade. 1. Charge mode, where Prime allows you to use ICE to recharge the traction battery; 2. 8.8 kWh battery (6.x usable) gives you 20 to 40 miles of EV range depending on ambient temp and terrain if driven eco consciously. The capture of energy is noticeably better than PIP under any circumstances; 3. It stays in EV in EV mode, with a few predefined conditions; 4.Safety features are much better. Dynamic Raider Cruise Control is one of my favorite.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #2 heiwa, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  3. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    The main differentiators, as I perceive them, based upon our 2017 P.Prime Advanced, are:
    - If you have routine access to charging, you can more-often-than-not take advantage of EV mode’s snappier acceleration (especially low-end), and lower noise. (Truthfully, I have gotten to where I find burn gas just plain disgusting.)
    - If you do drive in EV a lot, then you’re putting a lot less wear on the engine, meaning that you can conceptually keep the Prime a much-longer time. Paying $30-some-odd thousand dollars once every 20 years, say, is a considerable cost savings over spending $30-some-odd thousand once every 12 years!
    - The P.Prime has a considerably shallower trunk (raised floor), no spare tire, and, until 2020, only 4 seats. For us, 4 seats is a non-issue, and the shallower trunk is only a minor issue, but those may be bigger concerns for others.

    I wouldn’t let the selling cost distract you too much; it’s not that huge a difference, and the $4500 Federal tax rebate pretty much negates that difference anyway.
     
  4. heiwa

    heiwa Active Member

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    I had 2014 PIP and came to think it was one of the most misunderstood and underappreciated car ever on the road because it was fabulous for what it was designed for. I followed information on Prime months before its release up to our 1st purchase in Nov 2016. I lost much money in the transition, but have no regret. Another point I forgot to mention is that the creature comfort is light years ahead of PIP (e.g., the way doors feel when closed, cabin noise, etc.).

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    #4 heiwa, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  5. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    As to your original question about Prime vs regular Prius:
    1. Given the tax rebate and the dealer incentives in many northeastern states, the new Prime could be actually cheaper than the regular Prius.
    2. I have a '17 Prime and just got to ride in a friend's '17 Prius four. I was surprised at the similarities in behavior as well as his mpg compared to my Prime when in HV mode. It's a nice car. I also test drove a '16 three touring before getting my Prime in March. It felt a little coarser than the Prime or the four, but still a really nice car.
    Compared to the '13 PiP base I had:
    1. WOW! infinitely more comfortable seat. I just drove 6,012 miles on a big road trip. The last day was over 650 and the one before was over 750 miles. No discomfort at all. In the PiP, my tailbone was on fire after only about 500 miles. I think part of the advantage is the electric seat in my Premium. It's nice to be able to change the angle.
    2. Lots quieter.
    3. EV range is way better and you can stomp the pedal to the metal in EV and stay in EV. I always used to have to wait for a big gap in traffic when leaving work to make it home without burning gas. I sometimes sat there for five minutes trying to turn left. Now it's no sweat.
    4. Speaking of sweat, the air conditioner takes a smaller bite out of the EV range. And the display shows your estimated EV range with or without climate control on.
    5. For what it's worth, people compliment the looks of my Prime all the time. Never got a compliment on the PiP.
    6. It feels more planted in the curves than any previous generation Prius.

    I liked my PiP, but it frustrated me in a few important ways. Long range comfort was an issue. EV range was not quite enough. And EV acceleration was wimpy. The Prime fixed all of that and more. If you're used to the PiP, the Prime will knock your socks off.
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    not sure what you mean by, 'no calculation on what that really costs in terms of topping off the battery'.
     
  7. PT Guy

    PT Guy Senior Member

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    It depends on your driving routes. Most of our driving is local, so the 30 mile battery range serves us well. We use little gasoline. At our home electric rates we spend about 3 cents a mile for electric travel. The car shows about 120 miles per gallon over the car's life to date due to the infrequent use of engine travel. That's an average 120 miles of mixed battery & gasoline travel per gallon of gas. Your average mpg will absolutely be different depending on your mix of battery & gas travel.

    On the highway beyond electric range the Prime is a better hybrid due to its larger battery. We get about 60 mpg at highway speeds. We are very pleased with our Prime. If it was stolen we'd buy another.
     
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  8. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Before I got an L2 EVSE, I plugged the stock cable into a Killawatt meter to track how much energy I was putting into the PiP. Then just use you cost per kWh on your electric bill to calculate it. I made a spreadsheet to figure the cost per mile, which I have drastically modified for the Prime since it gives different statistics.

    BTW, I suggest using the car's timer to charge the car right before you leave. Having the battery constantly full will reduce its capacity more quickly than keeping a low SOC until you need it.
     
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  9. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Yes! On my P.Prime (again, a 2017 Advanced), a while back, I got into the habit for several months of charging up quasi-free the night before at the local mall, leaving it mostly charged all night.

    After a few months of that, it went from charging ~6.2KWh on a “full charge” down to 4.8KWh at the lowest. (By “full charge,” I mean from the EV/HV threshold to where it stops charging — the “top margin” for preventing battery degradation.) It’s recently gone back up to 5.9KWh, thankfully, but it took almost a year before it’s charging algorithm trusted me again!
     
    #9 mr88cet, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Did you post an update in that thread which you were worried it would not?

    Follow up is very informative for both newbies and those wanting to learn more about the vehicle they've been driving for years.
     
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  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    For the 2019 model I would think the biggest difference between PRIME and rest of Prius are the lack of a 5th seat in PRIME and availability of eAWD on Prius.

    If you don't need the 5th seat and AWD option and can live with a smaller cargo area (and missing spare tire), PRIME is a better buy for most. In fact, as pointed out by others PRIME will cost less than regular Prius after all the rebates and incentives are counted in some areas.

    I do not have experience with Pip, but PRIME can CHARGE the traction battery with charge mode to 80% SOC. Not only that, I just learned that using regen braking only PRIME can also replenish used traction battery back to 100% SOC in HV mode.
     
    #11 Salamander_King, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  12. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Yes, I believe I’ve kept it up-to-date. Although I don’t think I’ve pointed out 5.9KWh number in particular; I think I only mentioned that the GoM reading has gone up to just barely over 30 miles.
     
  13. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    Pretty basic math. On a Prime, a full battery charge is about 6.6 KWh. If you charge from an empty battery to full, then the cost is 6.6 times your rate per KWh for electricity. If it's charging from 50%, it's half that.

    Assume electricity (with taxes) for your last KWh is 15 cents. A full charge costs $0.15 x 6.6 = $0.99. A charge from 50% costs 0.5 x $0.15 x 6.6 = $.50 (rounded up).
     
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  14. PixelRogue

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    Planning on holding onto the Prius for 20 years? That is some planning. I thought 12 was long for the Camry.
     
  15. PixelRogue

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    Compared to the '13 PiP base I had:

    I liked my PiP, but it frustrated me in a few important ways. Long range comfort was an issue. EV range was not quite enough. And EV acceleration was wimpy. The Prime fixed all of that and more. If you're used to the PiP, the Prime will knock your socks off.[/QUOTE]

    It will be newer Prius or Prime, and that is the question.. on the newer models. We do use our trunk space quite a bit, but we can manage I'm sure. It is mainly the need to understand the differences (undocumented differences) of the two models in advance.
    (btw - state tax incentives in PA are pretty lame, can't include that one.)
     
  16. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    We’ll see! At a minimum, I might be able to sell it for more.
     
  17. PixelRogue

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    In other words, I am not sure what I am actually paying on the house electric account when topping off the PiP w/the charging cable.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    just divide your total bill by kWh's used to get your per kWh cost. then multiply that by 4 to get the cost of charging a completely depleted battery.

    if you want to know how many kWh's it is taking to recharge a partially depleted battery, you need a 'kilowatt' meter.
     
  19. PixelRogue

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    I love this board....thank you everyone!
     
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  20. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    True. We have managed nicely. The extra space of the regular hatchback would be nice, but we've had no problems with the Prime.

    After just riding in a friend's 2017 trim 4, I don't think there's a great deal of difference in behavior versus the Prime in HV mode. What you do get with the Prime is staggering fuel economy if you can plug in daily and your daily drive is not much more than 30 miles. I expect to get gas about every 3-4 months. You also get the 11.6" screen on the Premium and Advanced, but honestly, I don't think it's all that great. In fact, the display on the trim 4 I rode in looked way sharper than my big display. To me the car's map is completely useless since googlemaps, applemaps, waze, and garmin are all infinitely better and have free updates.

    So, unless I'm mistaken, the big differences are cost of operating and purchase price for a new one if the federal rebates help you. Personal taste for me also leans toward Prime for the looks, but that's not much of a factor in my decisions. That said, on the trip we just took visiting friends in a dozen states, every one of those friends complimented the car's looks almost before saying, "hello."

    Oh, and there is that smug sense of satisfaction I get when my friends whine about gas prices and I say, "Really? I hadn't noticed. It wasn't that high when I last filled up three months ago." :ROFLMAO:
     
    #20 jerrymildred, May 29, 2019
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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