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Help me with my commute

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by hubmacfan, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. hubmacfan

    hubmacfan Junior Member

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    2011 Prius
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    Four
    First, I'm relatively new with my 2011 Prius, only having it for 10 days as of this writing, so I'm sure my technique will improve a little. During that time, I've been averaging about 53.6 mpg, but I feel as if I can do better. I've set 54 mpg as this "magic number" that I'm aspiring to, but if I ever reach that, the number will probably rise to 55 and so on ... (As an aside, if I just set the cruise control while on the commute I'm about to describe, I get the same mileage as I do when I'm working on hypermiling, so I don't know if it's worth the effort with this route). Please help me improve my numbers

    My daily commute is around 15 miles. About half of this is a hilly and curvy road. The PSL on that portion is 55 mph, and it is a two-lane (one lane in each direction) road. At least one of the hills are so steep that if I DWL, I'll lose between 15 to 20 mph from the bottom to the top; that's with the HSI "pegged" right before the power section of the line. I can maintain speed, or at least lose less, if I go into the power area. Additionally, there are several curves at the bottom of the hills where I must brake down to around 40 mph to safely negotiate the curve.

    Finally, it is well-trafficked road as well, so, while observing the speed limit, I may have 10 cars piled up behind me, which makes me nervous.

    One last thing. I know a/c hurts my mpg, but this is south mississippi, where the humidity is so high that you even need a/c in winter, so it's going to be on if I'm in the car. (Heat index today is 110).
     
    Wiggy Greacen likes this.
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    First, start with this questionnaire, it will giving us a more solid foundation from which to suggest improvements:
    Fuel economy complaints/queries? Please copy, paste & answer these questions, esp. if you're new
    Don't be too fearful of going into the power area. The fuel penalty of the first portion is relatively low. There is far more fuel to be saved by other methods, such as opportunistic gliding, minimizing unnecessary braking, and keeping braking in the regeneration zone whenever practical ...
     
  3. hubmacfan

    hubmacfan Junior Member

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    Location:
    Hattiesburg, Mississippi
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Sorry about not posting the questions first. Here goes:

    - Have you read This Thead Yet?

    Yes.

    - What fuel economy are you getting and how are you determining fuel economy? (trip computer or manual calculations)

    By trip computer, I'm averaging 53.6 mpg.

    - What fuel economy are you expecting and why?

    Right now, I'd be happy with 54. Why? Because I'm competitive and I see all these people with mpg in the 60's or higher in their sigs.

    - What are the approximate outside air temps?

    In the high 70's during morning; mid to high 90's during the afternoon commute. Don't know if it matters, but humidity is in the high 90%'s.

    - How long are your trips?

    I plotted my route on toporoute.com, and it got 17.86 miles.

    How old is your 12v battery? What is the voltage reading of your 12v battery after sitting over night? (Method Here)

    I assume it's the original battery, and the car entered service in december of 2011. I just bought it about 10 days ago. I have yet to check the voltage of the battery, but I suspect it may soon be time to change it. I'm losing 1 or 2 bars overnight with the car just sitting there.

    Have you had your alignment checked? Any pulling or abnormal tire wear?

    No alignment checked and no issues noted.

    - How much of it is city vs. highway? Roughly what's the average speed in overall and and of each segment? Is there a lot of stop and go driving?

    It's about half and half. In the "city" part of it, the PSL is 45 and the "highway" PSL is 55. During the first part, it's possible for there to be a lot of stop and go. The traffic lights are not synced at all, and it is possible that I'll have to stop about once a mile before I get to the highway portion of my commute.

    - What's the terrain like of your drives? (e.g. flat, gentle hills, steep hills, etc.)

    Rolling and steep hills. Overall, there's a 200 foot increase in elevation from home to work with a mean grade of 0.2%. Attached is a graph of elevation vs distance.

    [​IMG]

    - What are your tire pressures?

    Haven't checked since I bought the car.

    - Is your oil overfilled? (i.e. above the full mark on the dipstick)

    Nope.

    - Make, model, year, engine and transmission of previous car? (e.g. 08 Honda Civic Si 2.0L 4 cylinder, manual transmission) What did you actually get on the same trips/commute? (Please give us actual numbers, not EPA ratings.)

    07 Kia Optima with the base 4-cyl engine. It never did this commute, so I can't compare.

    - What region/state are you in? (if you haven't set your location)

    Hattiesburg, MS (about 1 hour north of the gulf coast)

    - How are you trying to drive (e.g. trying to stay in electric only?) and how hard are you braking?

    I'm following the "guidelines" on P&G. I have the HSI up to the edge of power on the pulse, and I have no lines indicated on the glide. I brake very gently. If I see a stop coming up, I'll exit my glide and enter regen from the "engine drag." As I get closer, I'll use regenerative braking if needed, but I never fill up the regen portion of the HSI.

    - What modes are you using, if any? "normal", EV, power, eco?

    I started out on the commute on eco, but I have discovered I personally do better on normal, so that's where I keep it.

    - Are you "warming up" the ICE (internal combustion engine) by letting it idle after powering on?

    No. The mornings are so warm that the ICE is usually warm before I've gone .1 or .2 of a mile.

    - Are you driving using D or B mode?

    D

    - HVAC settings? Are you using the heater, AC, auto mode, etc.? If using auto, what temp is it set to?

    In the mornings, I usually have the AC set on 76. Start off on normal AC and switch to max after I can detect that it has cooled the interior. Usually, in the mornings, I just need it to get the humidity out of the air. The external temp is pleasant to me. Same in the afternoon commute, although the external temp is in the 90's by that point.

    - Are you using the factory tires and wheels? If not, please indicate tire make, model and size (e.g. Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max 185/65R15).

    Factory tires and wheels; the 17" ones.

    - If reporting a mileage drop, did anything significant change on your car (e.g. accident, hit a curb or big pothole throwing off alignment, oil change/other maintenance/repairs, changed tires or wheels, etc.) or your commute?

    N/a
     
  4. jhinsc

    jhinsc Senior Member

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    I think you're doing fine on your commute. I would move with the flow of traffic since hypermiling will just piss off other drivers during rush hour traffic. You can still anticipate when you need to stop or slow down to take advantage of glides. Accelerate moderately, even if you have to go into the red zone, but you'll find you won't need to stay there very long.
     
  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    The 12V battery ought to still be OK. But the 2010s did seem to get a batch with more than usual early failures, so it is worth a check.
    Hills add a lot of variability. There is little you can do about the uphills, but they really shouldn't hurt overall round trip results much because the ICE remains quite efficient over a wide operating range, particularly in the Gen III, even a ways outside the ECO zone of the HSI display. The downhills add a lot more opportunity to gain mpg if finessed well, or lost it if handled poorly. And required stops on the downhills will hurt.
    Checking is essential. For best results, get your own pressure gauge to make it convenient to check often.
    The 17"s will hurt a bit, there is no getting around that. So just enjoy their better performance.

    Overall, it seems that you are handling it fairly well. Tire pressure and hill details appear to be the biggest unknowns. The former is easily checked and judged. The latter is much harder to judge without a ride-along from someone experienced, and may just take a lot more time at the wheel to refine.
     
  6. hubmacfan

    hubmacfan Junior Member

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    Checked the tire pressures, and they were at the recommended pressures. I increased them to 42 front, 40 rear.
     
  7. Rupert B Puppenstein

    Rupert B Puppenstein Active Member

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    Do you see your mileage going down with the A/C on? It may be worth putting it on the lowest fan setting and letting it idle for a couple minutes instead of using the maximum A/C. I noticed that as soon as I realized how much the A/C affected things that my mileage instantly improved. Perhaps anticipating the time you have to ride the brakes down the hill by losing speed right before it may help too. That is the thing about driving this car. You find what works for you, because ultimately unless we are driving the same route, we can't possibly know what will 100% help improve your mileage. I am certain you will meet your goal, though! It may have to wait until the temperatures start to cool down a bit, but you never know. :)
     
  8. hubmacfan

    hubmacfan Junior Member

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    Right before I left work today, a thunderstorm came through and cooled things significantly. The outside temp was 72 on my commute home. I didn't use a/c, and mpg went up to 56.8.
     
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Was it parked multiple hours? If not, recheck in the morning when the tires are at their coldest of the day.

    The higher pressure will help mpg, but on those wider tires could possibly be too stiff for your comfort. This is a balance between conflicting goals, and different people have different balance points.
     
  10. hubmacfan

    hubmacfan Junior Member

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    Yes it was. Checked again this morning just to make sure, and the pressure was the same.
     
  11. hubmacfan

    hubmacfan Junior Member

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    Finally made it to 54, and got all the way up to 54.2 mpg. I think what made the difference was the temperature was lower because of rain, and I could leave the a/c off, or if I did run it, I used it intermittently, turning it off when I got comfortable and leaving it off for several minutes before turning it back on for a minute or so.
     
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  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Are you resetting one Trip meter each morning? This provides the fastest feedback about what works and what doesn't, without contamination from whatever you tried over previous days. It also highlights the cost of warmups and short trips, as the daily MPG starts out hideously low then climbs as the trip gets longer.

    Then reserve the other Trip meter for longer intervals, such as since the last fillup.
     
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  13. hubmacfan

    hubmacfan Junior Member

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    Thanks, I hadn't thought about that.
     
  14. MarvHein

    MarvHein Junior Member

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    If your city drive is grid-like, as mine is, I will often zig-zag when I have to climb going home.
    I EV as much as possible across the hill and when the charge runs down and the ICE has to run anyway, I do some climbing. When the battery charges back up, I go across the hill again. Repeat.

    Do you have options on some of your route, especially the "cross-hill" portions? For example, in the city portion of my commute, because of the way they cut the streets, I can take one street to work and a parallel street home and drive largely downhill both ways! ;) This helps with the cross-hill EV stretches.

    I picked about 4 mpg this way.
     
  15. hubmacfan

    hubmacfan Junior Member

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    I actually work in a different city from where I live. There are three routes I can take. Two are on state highways and one is a mix of interstate and state highway (it's the longest of the three). I've been taking the state highway route with no traffic lights in it (but stop signs), but my project for the rest of the month is to spend a week taking each and seeing how mileage compares.
     
  16. MarvHein

    MarvHein Junior Member

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    OK, experiment with routes in both directions. You may find one works best going to work and a different one works best returning home.

    With varying distances, one thing to keep in mind is that your goal is to minimize trip cost, not necessarily maximize mpg. So if you get better mpg on the longest route, it still might not be the best choice.

    Combine that with the possibility of EV mode zig-zagging during climbs if you can.

    And keep us posted!
     
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  17. css28

    css28 Senior Member

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    You're doing very well.
    Worry less about the power level that you use to accelerate. If can possibly arrange it, get up to speed briskly to avoid having to accelerate uphill, even if you have to use the "power" band and beyond for this. By far the biggest gains will come from your ability to glide.
    A good part of my commute is posted at 45 mph but it's three lanes each direction and the traffic lights are reliably timed. With a few days practice I can anticipate which lights I will make and which ones I'll have to stop at. With the extra lanes (and light morning traffic) I can keep out of most peoples' way and do pretty well. Of course I don't have the air conditioning situation that you do.
     
  18. hubmacfan

    hubmacfan Junior Member

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    Can you elaborate on what you mean by zig-zagging?
     
  19. jdk2

    jdk2 Active Member

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    It sounds like he's running parallel to the hill in EV then when the ICE needs to run, he turns and climbs a hill to recharge the HV battery. Rinse and repeat until he gets to where he's going.
     
  20. MarvHein

    MarvHein Junior Member

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    Yep, that's it.