Help, Need Advice on Prius Plug-In

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Crankykentucky, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. Lourun

    Lourun Member

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    Just leased a 2013 PIP, traded in a 2010 Prius with 5 months remaining on lease , which they bought out. For just 60 dollars a month more i got a $33,000 car compared to the $ 25,000 Prius I had before. No worrys about depreciation or any thing else and in less that 3 years I can get a new PIp hopefully with more EV milage available.
     
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  2. NEinSE

    NEinSE New Member

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    On a 12,000 mile per year, 36 months lease you should be able to obtain terms of $31,500 including all fees except tax and title,
    with monthly lease payments of $269. On a 15,000 miles per year lease, monthly payments should be $299.

    The only amount you should have to pay the dealer aside from tax and title fees is the amount of the first month's lease payment.

    If you have a 12,000 miles per year lease, you turn in an end of lease car with 9,000 less miles on the odometer than on a 15,000 miles per year lease. If you want to keep your lease with 45,000 miles on it you pay about $16,900, and more if your mileage limit was 36,000 in 36 months.

    If you turn in the car at end of lease, you pay at least $350.

    In my state, you must pay the sales tax on the market value as determined by the state, less the amount of promotions/rebates.

    If you keep the car at end of lease, you are again required to pay sales tax on the market value of a three year old car. If you owned the car and traded it in, the value of the trade in would be deducted from the market value of the new purchase transaction.

    Since the $2500 Fed. rebate is being rolled into the lease rebate by Toyota Finance, the direct penalties of leasing are the duplicate sales tax payment of at most, $1000 you must pay on whatever transaction replaces the 3 year leased vehicle, even if you keep the leased vehicle, and at least $350 if you turn in the leased vehicle with the mileage limits and in pristine condition.

    There is less chance at the end of three years that a lease that has transported a family of five daily and sometimes on heavily packed, longer trips, will be in pristine condition than if the lease transports an older couple with no children.

    The known extra expenses then, are about $10 per month for the $350 turn in fee and say, $30 per month for the second sales tax fee. Allowing $2000 in tax and title fees on the original lease transaction, and those are fees a buyer would also pay, add an additional $56 per month. This brings the monthly cost of a 36 months, 12,000 miles per year lease to $365 per month.

    In exchange for $365 per month for 3 years and the option to walk away at the end of the lease, you've bought the option of buying the leased vehicle for $17,500, less the $350 lease turn in fee. You might even have the option to buy the 3 year old leased vehicle and sell it at a quick profit.

    The PIP is an experimental vehicle, judging by its miniscule sales numbers, to date. Its market value and 2014 sales suffer from these conditions as well as from the expectation of a 2015 next generation offering. Toyota already selected the 15 states in which the PIP was expected to experience strongest sales demand. Are there higher average gasoline prices in any of the 35 states in which the PIP is supposed to be offered late this year, than in the 15 states the PIP has been marketed in? Texas and Florida seem to be the only large states of the 35.

    Buyers of the PIP got a small discount compared to lessees, but they also own all of the depreciation potential and risk not having the flexibility to economically choose the new generation model.
     
  3. DadofHedgehog

    DadofHedgehog Active Member

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    I'd recommend the PiP if you have a daily commute of <25 miles one way and can charge at home. Check the PiP Advanced - very good stereo.
     
  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That's an anecdotal conclusion. The observation makes sense. But knowing Toyota's history, it's quite realistic to say that's not the case. They rolled out the Classic model in phases. It too could have had the very same conclusion drawn.
     
  5. Crankykentucky

    Crankykentucky Junior Member

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    So, given the arguments, why do so many people continue to lease over and over? Not just Prius owners, either. A neighbor is driving a new Mercedes and he still has an Infinite crossover that he leased this past January after turning in his last model.
    He swears by leasing and says he will never buy again. He just got the Mercedes and they bought out his BMW lease early.
     
  6. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Why are so many people in debt or have very little net worth in this country? The truth is that most people that have to keep up with the Jones' (have lots of nice things) have very little net worth. Big hat, no cattle.
     
  7. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    To follow up. People just don't understand numbers very well. Financially or even energy balance regarding their own body either. There will always be many, many people who spend more than they make. And there will always be many, many people who consume more calories than they burn. It really boils down to that.
     
  8. retired4999

    retired4999 Prius driver since 2005

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    Many people who consume more calories than they burn.
    I think that is me. :rolleyes:
     
  9. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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  10. RBooker

    RBooker Member

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    If you want a car and you have the money, buy it. If you need a car and you do not have the money lease it.
     
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  11. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Or better yet...if you need a car and don't have the money...buy used.
     
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  12. Lourun

    Lourun Member

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    And if you want or need a car, and have money, do what's best for you!
     
  13. Lourun

    Lourun Member

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    Markabele, I most likely consume and burn more calories than most!
     
  14. rockerdan

    rockerdan PiP Rocks!

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    If you always have a payment anyway (borrowing then after 5 year loan ,"buying" again with a new loan) many people will say a lease is cheaper out of pocket each month. And you can get a more costly car for lesser monthy payment.

    But with the PiP i went with a lease for the reason of the rebate mostly. There are many people out there that cannot get the "tax" rebate for many reasons. Leasing the PiP with the incentive already built into the lease is the way i decided to go.

    Also, i tend to buy my cars after the lease is up....I keep them in very good shape and usually add accessories so i like to keep them longer then 3 yrs. I have actually always done well on them when i do sell them, due to the condition i keep them in. I realize buying them id probably do even better, but if you can get a really good lease rate or incentive, sometimes is best to use your "cash" on other investments. It really all depends on each individual.

    JMO
    Dan
     
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  15. Lourun

    Lourun Member

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    Rockerdan , I agree totally!
     
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  16. Crankykentucky

    Crankykentucky Junior Member

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    Rockerdan, I like your post because I have researched the rebate on Google and there are people who filed the proper paperwork for the rebate and didn't get it for several reasons. It seems like I have always had a car payment of some kind, but what I really got tired of was going upside down on a car due to mileage or just the market value. Thus, I was the one put in charge of trying to sell a car when our family decided to change to an all-wheel drive or because of a move, etc.

    The one part of your post I am not sure about is the actual buying of a car after the lease. I really hoped to do this with my 2010 Prius, but even with a low interest rate I would be paying a medium sized car payment for 36 or 48 months. So, then I ask myself if a 2010 Prius is the model I want to "bet" on as far as longevity, dependability, value and the rest of the things you look for in a car purchase. My dealer now and my old dealer says "trade" when it comes to the Prius because of the changing technology. I really expected my 2010 lease to end in the middle of some big, important Prius revolution. But, Toyota is being very conservative, in my humble and uneducated opinion, in their changes to the basic hybrid system that has served us well. The PIP is impressive, but critics point out that Toyota stopped short of putting more plug-in range in the new car. Maybe, maybe not?

    Anyway, this thread has taught me a lot and I get kind of grumpy about changing cars. My wife is against a lease because we have an economist in the family with a PhD who can run the number against any lease. He drives a used Hyundai, which he calls "a throw-away vehicle."

    Like you and others have pointed out, the rebate Toyota is offering on the PIP is like nothing else out there right now. The For C-Max is a beautiful rig, but the purchase or lease payments on that car are very high without any real incentives. There is supposed to be a good deal of dealer money on the Kia Hybrid, but it has some issues compared to Toyota.

    Thanks!
    Fred
     
  17. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    :)
     
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  18. rockerdan

    rockerdan PiP Rocks!

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    That is the kicker about leasing, usually buying the car after is more monthly then just leasing a brand new one...that is how they suck us in..lol

    But if the vehicle is in great shape, and you may have put accessories into it, buying it may be worth it, and sometimes just buying it to SELL it can be worth it, obviously you need to crunch those exact numbers at the lease end.

    It is true that buying is always cheaper in the end....I agree. But there is a reason leasing is so popular, and it does fit the "american" lifestyle of having more then you can pay for. lol

    But i highly recommend with the PiP to look closely, In my case the "rebate" was not attainable and many people will find they cannot get the rebate thru their taxes, this is when the lease is a great bargain as those rebates are taken right off the top of the price.
     
  19. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    This
     
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  20. rockerdan

    rockerdan PiP Rocks!

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    Another thing I forgot to mention that is another reason leasing has become so popular, especially with many of my female friends. They all have told me many times, they love the idea of turning in their car, and getting a new car.

    Lets face it, "trading in" to a dealer your used car is always where the dealer sticks it to us...many people just do it and take the beating and not realize how bad a beating they took. So with leasing you already know your residual and your termination fees.

    For "car guys" who keep their vehicles in great shape, we don't mind selling them privately and not getting shafted on a trade. But lets face it most people are not very picky with their cars or keep them in great shape to sell, nor do they want to try to sell them.

    Again, for most people there are many reasons leasing is favored, and buying for many people is not easily attainable, especially the fact we are talking about 30K+ vehicles here. Sure those people should by buying used cheaper cars but again, most people want reliable new cars and if they want something like a PiP with the latest technology, that is why these leases are flying off the shelf.

    and ofcourse as i think was discussed earlier...Us early adopters who leased will not lose our asses in a few yrs if we try to sell or trade up as the technology changes, and with these early rebates leaves those buyers with major losses if they try to sell. I think there has been some instances already of used PiPs out there awful cheap. (??)
     
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