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Help! Strange noise "Jill" with intermittent motor/fan turning on

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by 2009Prius, Apr 5, 2010.

  1. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

    Joined:
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    Vehicle:
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    Thanks! Since the noise was not there in the beginning when the car was new, and it only came up after a few months worth of abnormal operation of the A/C system (A/C always on with A/C button off), I would think something bad may have happened or may be waiting to happen. Yes let's wait for Bear's comment.
     
  2. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    Vehicle:
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    Normally does the A/C compressor runs in IGN ON (not READY) mode (with A/C button on)? I thought so and if so then this is another indication that the climate control computer was in a confused state - with A/C button off, the A/C compressor runs in READY mode as if the computer thinks the A/C button in on, but in IGN ON mode the compressor shuts off.
     
  3. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

    Joined:
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    Vehicle:
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    Another thought: Could the "Jill" noise be some valve opening/closing? It would be nice to know the sequence of events associated with the A/C compressor coming on.
     
  4. Bear68

    Bear68 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
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    Hi all, here are my thoughts on the latest posts...

    I haven't noticed a pattern yet on the compressors we have replaced. The ones that come to mind are due to no compression (pressures equal high and low sides) and .... Noisy.

    The fact that the noise in 2009Prius' car was NOT there until recently, indicates a changing condition even though some noise on startup of the compressor is normal. I would recommend replacement, provided the car is still under warranty. If the dealer is hesitant due to the very brief nature of the noise, remain politely persistant.

    Be polite, but do not take no for an answer. Ask to speak to the factory rep if needed. In most cases, unless the situation is something that is simply a charectoristic of the vehicle and cannot be changed, the dealer will replace the part(s) in order to keep the customer happy.

    Also ask them to check the A/C controls. Replacing the compressor will not solve the problem if the controls are keeping it running when it shouldn't be.
     
    2 people like this.
  5. Bear68

    Bear68 Member

    Joined:
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    How does it work?? Here comes the information overload.... This is right out of the Toyota new car features guide for the 2004 Prius and the basic operation is still the same for the 2009. Unfortunately, the pictures did not copy and paste very well. Send me an email at [email protected] and I will reply with a PDF file atached with this info in a more readable condition....

    BE-96 BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING

    CONSTRUCTION AND OPERATION
    1. Air Conditioning Operation

     ​
    On the ’03 Prius, the air conditioning was controlled at the air conditioning control panel. On the ’04 Prius,
    this control operation has been changed to the switches that appear on the air conditioning screen display
    of the multi display and the switches provided on the steering pad.

     ​
    In addition to the air conditioning screen display, the operating conditions of the AUTO,
    RECIRCULATION, front DEF, and rear DEF switches are indicated by the indicator lights in the
    combination meter.

    255BE93 ​
    Steering Pad Switch
    Multi Display

    AVC-LAN
    Combination Meter
    Gateway ECU
    Meter ECU
    BEAN
    A/C ECU​
    BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING BE-97

    2. Air Conditioning Unit​
    General​
     ​
    A semi-center location air conditioning unit, in which the evaporator and heater core are placed in the
    vehicle’s longitudinal direction, has been adopted.

     ​
    A 2-way flow type air conditioning unit that changes the 2-way flow operation if specified conditions
    are met, is adopted. Under 2-way flow operation, the system introduces external air and internal air
    simultaneously, discharges warm internal air to the foot area, and the fresh, dry external air to the upper
    area. Thus, it realizes both excellent heating performance and demisting performance. For details, 2-way
    flow control on see page BE-107.

    255BE94 ​
    Warm internal air to the footwell area
    External Air
    Fresh, dry external air to the upper area

    Construction​
    A partition plate divides the inside of the air conditioning unit into two (External and internal air passages)
    parts. Thus, by controlling the external air door and the internal air door separately, the external and internal
    airs are introduced into the cabin in the following three modes.​
     ​
    FRESH AIR

     ​
    RECIRC AIR

     ​
    BI-LEVEL, FRESH AIR/ RECIRC AIR (2-way flow)

    181BE38​
    Internal
    Air
    External
    Air
    DEF FACE
    Internal Air
    Partition
    Plate
    Heater Core FOOT
    Internal Air Door Evaporator
    Internal
    Air
    Internal External
    Air Door
    External Air​
    BE-98 BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING

    Evaporator​
     ​
    An RS (Revolutionary Slim) evaporator has been adopted.

     ​
    By placing the tanks at the top and the bottom of the evaporator unit and adopting a micropore tube
    construction, the following effects have been realized:
    a) The heat exchanging efficiency has been improved.
    b) The temperature distribution has been made more uniform.
    c) The evaporator has been made thinner. 58 mm (2.3 in.)
    38 mm (1.5 in.)

     ​
    The evaporator body has been coated with a type of resin that contains an antibacterial agent in order
    to minimize the source of foul odor and the propagation of bacteria. The substrate below this coating
    consists of a chromate-free layer to help protect the environment.

    232BE19​
    Aluminum
    Matrix
    Chromate Free
    Layer
    Nylon Layer
    Antibacterial Agent
    Cooling Fin
    Micropore Tube
    Tank
    Tank​
    BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING BE-99

    Heater Core and PTC Heater​
     ​
    A compact, lightweight, and highly efficient straight flow (full-path flow) aluminum heater core is used.
    A PTC (Positive Temperature Coefficient) heater has been built into the heater core tube.

     ​
    The PTC heater contains electrodes that are interposed with a PTC element, to which current is applied
    in order to warm the air that passes through the fin. For details, PTC heater control on see page BE-108.

    255BE95​
    Warm Air
    Core Tube
    Cool Air
    Warm Water
    PTC Element Insulation Film
    Fin
    Electrodes
    PTC Heater
    Warm Water​
     ​
    PTC heater has been provided in the air duct at the footwell outlet in front of the air conditioning unit.
    This PTC heater, which is a honeycombshaped PTC thermistor, directly warms the air that flows in the
    duct.

    255BE96​
    PTC Heaters​
    BE-100 BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING

    3. Condenser​
    General​
     ​
    The ’04 Prius retains the sub-cool condenser from the ’03 Prius. However, in the ’04 Prius the condenser
    core has been made more minute and the refrigerant volume reduced.

     ​
    This condenser has adopted a sub-cool cycle for its cooling cycle system to improve heat-exchanging
    efficiency.

    255BE97​
    ’04​
    Modulator​
    ’03
    BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING

    Service Tip​
    Amount of Refrigerant
    Point in which Bubbles Disappear
    Properly Recharged Amount
    High Pressure​
    241BE169​
    BE-101​
    Sub-Cool Cycle​
    The sub-cool cycle consists of the condensing portion and the super-cooling portion, and has the gas-liquid
    separator (modulator) located between the two portions. A liquid refrigerant passed though the modulator
    is cooled again in the super-cooling portion to increase energy of the refrigerant itself, thus high-efficiency
    of the cooling performance is provided.​
    255BE98​
    Super-Cooling Portion
    Liquid Refrigerant
    Gaseous Refrigerant
    Modulator
    Multi-Flow Condenser Condensing Portion
    The point at which the air bubbles disappear in the refrigerant of the sub-cool cycle is lower than the
    proper amount of refrigerant with which the system must be filled. Therefore, if the system recharged
    with refrigerant based on the point at which the air bubbles disappear, the amount of refrigerant would
    be insufficient. As a result, the cooling performance of the system will be affected. If the system is
    overcharged with refrigerant, this will also lead to a reduced performance.
    For the proper method of verifying the amount of the refrigerant and to recharge the system with
    refrigerant, see the 2004 Prius Repair Manual (Pub. No. RM1075U).​
    BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING

    Service Tip
    BE-102​
    4. Compressor​
    General​
     ​
    Instead of the SCS06 scroll compressor that is actuated by the engine on the ’03 Prius, the ’04 Prius has
    newly adopted an ES18 Electric Inverter Compressor that is actuated by a built-in electric motor. Except
    for the portion that is actuated by the electric motor, the basic construction and operation of this
    compressor are the same as in the scroll compressor used on the ’03 Prius.

     ​
    The electric motor is actuated by the alternating current power (201.6 V) supplied by the A/C inverter,
    which is integrated in the hybrid system inverter. As a result, the air conditioning control system on the
    ’04 Prius is actuated without depending on the operation of the engine, thus realizing a comfortable air
    conditioning system and low fuel consumption.

     ​
    Due to the adoption of an electric inverter compressor, the compressor speed can be controlled at the
    required speed calculated by the A/C ECU. Thus, the cooling and dehumidification performance and
    power consumption have been optimized.

     ​
    Low-moisture permeation hoses have been adopted for the suction and discharge hoses at the compressor
    in order to minimize the entry of moisture into the refrigeration cycle.

     ​
    The compressor uses high-voltage alternating current. If a short or open circuit occurs in the compressor
    wiring harness, the HV ECU will cut off the A/C inverter circuit in order to stop the power supply to
    the compressor.

     ​
    For details on the Electric Inverter Compressor control effected by the A/C ECU, see page BE-110.

    255BE99​
    Discharge Hose
    Suction Hose
    In order ensure the proper insulation of the internal high-voltage portion of the compressor and the
    compressor housing, the ’04 Prius has adopted a compressor oil (ND11) with a high level of insulation
    performance. Therefore, never use a compressor oil other than the ND11 type compressor oil or its
    equivalent.​
    BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING BE-103

    Construction​
     ​
    The Electric Inverter Compressor consists of a spirally wound fixed scroll and variable scroll that form
    a pair, a brushless motor, an oil separator, and a motor shaft.

     ​
    The fixed scroll is integrated with the housing. Because the rotation of the shaft causes the variable scroll
    to revolve while maintaining the same posture, the volume of the space that is partitioned by both scrolls
    varies to perform the suction, compression, and the discharge of the refrigerant gas.

     ​
    Locating the suction port directly above the scrolls enables direct suction, thus realizing improved
    suction efficiency.

     ​
    Containing a built-in oil separator, this compressor is able to separate the compressor oil that is
    intermixed with the refrigerant and circulates in the refrigeration cycle, thus realizing a reduction in the
    oil circulation rate.

    255BE100​
    Variable Scroll
    Motor Shaft
    Discharge Port Brushless Motor
    Oil Separator
    Fixed Scroll​
    BE-104 BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING

    Operation​
    1) Suction​
    As the capacity of the compression chamber, which is created between the variable scroll and the fixed
    scroll, increases in accordance with the revolution of the variable scroll, refrigerant gas is drawn in from
    the intake port.​
    2) Compression​
    From the state at which the suction process has been completed, as the revolution of the variable scroll
    advances further, the capacity of the compression chamber decreases gradually. Consequently, the
    refrigerant gas that has been drawn in becomes compressed gradually and is sent to the center of the fixed
    scroll. The compression of the refrigerant gas is completed when the variable scroll completes
    approximately 2 revolutions.​
    3) Discharge​
    When the compression of the refrigerant gas is completed and the refrigerant pressure becomes high, the
    refrigerant gas discharges through the discharge port located in the center of the fixed scroll by pushing
    the discharge valve.​
    165BE23​
    Compression
    Discharge
    Fixed Scroll
    Intake Port
    Variable
    Scroll
    Discharge
    Port
    Suction​
    BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING BE-105

    5. Water Pump​
     ​
    Same as the ’03 Prius, an electrical water pump has been adopted. This provides a stable heater
    performance even if the engine is stopped because of a function of the THS-II.

     ​
    The ’04 Prius has adopted a new type of electrical water pump in which the water flow resistance has been
    reduced. As a result, the bypass valve that was used on the ’03 Prius has been discontinued.

    255BE101​
    from Engine
    to Heater​
    6. Room Temp. and Humidity Sensor​
     ​
    A humidity sensor function has been added to the room temperature sensor. By enabling the detection of
    humidity in the vehicle interior, this function optimizes the amount of dehumidification effort during the
    operation of the air conditioning system. As a result, the power consumption of the compressor has been
    reduced and a comfortable level of humidity has been realized in the vehicle interior.

     ​
    The humidity-sensing resistance film that is built into the humidity sensor absorbs and releases the
    humidity in the vehicle interior. During the absorption and releasing processes, the humidity-sensing
    resistance film expands (during the absorption of humidity) and contracts (during drying). The clearance
    between the carbon particles in the humidity-sensing resistance film expands and contracts during
    absorption and drying, thus changing the resistance between the electrodes. The A/C ECU determines the
    humidity in the vehicle interior through the changes in the output voltage of the humidity sensor that are
    caused by the resistance between the electrodes.

    255BE103​
    Humidity Sensor Room Temp. Sensor
    A/C ECU
    Electrodes
    Humidity-sensing Resistance Film
    Relative Humidity
    Low High
    Output
    Voltage
    Low
    High​
    255BE102​
    BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING

    Service Tip
    BE-106​
    7. Blower Pulse Controller​
    The blower pulse controller controls the voltage that is output to the blower motor in accordance with the
    duty cycle signals that are input by the A/C ECU. It is characterized by a smaller amount of heat generation
    than the blower controller used on the previous model. As a result, the power loss associated with the heat
    generation of the conventional blower linear controller has been reduced, thus realizing low fuel
    consumption.​
    255BE105​
    Duty Ratio (%)
    30
    13
    Output
    Voltage
    (V)
    M+
    Blower
    Pulse
    Controller
    SI
    Duty Signal
    A/C ECU
    M- 4
    95​
    255BE104​
    8. Clean Air Filter​
     ​
    A clean air filter (Standard type Particle Filter) that excels in the removal of dust and pollen, located in
    the blower unit is provided.

     ​
    This filter, which cleans the air in the cabin, is made of polyester. Thus, it can be disposed of easily as a
    combustible material, a feature that is friendly the environment.

    255BE106​
    Clean Air Filter
    (standard type particle filter)
    The clean air filter (standard type particle filter) on U.S.A. model should be changed at 30,000 miles.
    On Canada model, it should be changed at 16,000 km. However, it varies with the use conditions (or
    environment).​
    BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING BE-107

    9. Air Conditioning ECU​
    General​
    The air conditioning ECU has following control.
    Control Outline
    Fuzzy Control
    (see page BE-109)
    The fuzzy control determines the conformity levels of the
    temperature deviation, ambient temperature, and solar radiation by
    defining their respective mathematical functions. In addition, a fuzzy
    calculation method is used to calculate the required outlet air
    temperature (TAO) and the blower volume. Based on these
    calculations, the A/C ECU effects the respective controls for the
    outlet air temperature, blower volume, compressor, and air outlet.
    Outlet Air
    Temp.
    Control
    Air Mix
    Damper
    Control
    In response to the temperature control switch setting, the required
    outlet air temperature, evaporator temperature sensor, and engine
    coolant temperature sensor compensations are used by the air mix
    control damper control to calculate a tentative damper opening angle,
    through an arithmetic circuit in the air mix damper, to arrive at a target
    damper opening angle.
    Blower
    Control
    Blower Motor
    Start Up
    Control
    When the blower motor is started up, the A/C ECU transmits a blower
    motor actuation signal with a low duty cycle ratio to the blower pulse
    controller, which applies a low voltage to the blower motor, in order
    to operate the blower motor for 3 seconds at a low speed. This is
    designed to protect the blower pulse controller from a sudden start-up
    voltage surge.
    Manual Control Sets the blower speed according to operation of the blower switch.
    Automatic
    Control​
    Step Less Air Volume Control:​
    • ​
    When the AUTO switch located on the steering pad switch is
    pushed, or the air conditioning screen display of the multi display
    is touched, the A/C ECU automatically regulates the duty ratio to
    the blower pulse controller in accordance with a calculation result
    by the fuzzy control in order to deliver step less air volume.

    Warm-up Control:​
    • ​
    When the air outlet is in the FOOT, BI-LEVEL, or FOOT/DEF
    mode, the blower will not operate until the engine coolant
    temperature increases above a prescribed value. When the
    temperature increases above a prescribed value, the blower motor
    operates at the LO speed.

    Time-Lagged Air Flow Control:​
    • ​
    2 types of time-lagged air flow control (in accordance with the
    detected by the evaporator temperature sensor) help prevent hot air
    from being emitted from FACE or BI-LEVEL vent.

    Sunlight Air Flow Control:​
    • ​
    Controls the blower speed in accordance with the intensity of the
    sunlight when the air outlet mode is at FACE or BI-LEVEL. The
    blower speed can be adjusted in response to the signal received
    from the solar sensor.
    (Continued)

    BE-108 BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING
    Control Outline
    Air Outlet
    Control
    Manual Control Changes the air outlet in accordance with the selected position of the
    mode select switch.
    Automatic
    Control

    Mode Damper Switching Servomotor Control:​
    • ​
    When the AUTO switch is pushed, automatic control causes the
    mode servomotor to rotate to a desired position in accordance with
    the target damper opening, which is based on the calculation of the
    TAO.

    Low-Temperature FOOT/DEF Control:​
    • ​
    In accordance with the engine coolant temperature, ambient
    temperature, amount of sunlight, required outlet temperature
    (TAO), and vehicle speed conditions, this control automatically
    switches the blower outlet between the FOOT/ DEF modes to
    prevent the window from becoming fogged when the outside air
    temperature is low.
    Air Inlet
    Control
    Manual Control
    Drives the air inlet servomotor according to the operation of the air
    inlet control switch and fixes the dampers in the FRESH or RECIRC
    position.
    Automatic
    Control

    Automatic RECIRC/ FRESH Control:​
    • ​
    When the AUTO switch is pressed, the system controls the servo
    motor in order to achieve the air inlet that has been calculated in
    accordance with the TAO.

    DEF Mode Control:​
    • ​
    When switching the mode switching switch to DEF mode, A/C
    ECU turns MAX mode ON forcibly and switches to FRESH mode.

    • ​
    When switching the mode switching switch to FOOT/DEF mode,
    A/C ECU switches to FRESH mode.
    2-Way Flow Mode Control
    At the time of selecting FRESH mode, A/C ECU will judge it as
    2-way flow mode when the blower outlet is selected to FOOT or
    FOOT/DEF, the tentative air mix damper opening angle is above the
    specified value (MAX HOT), and either the blower volume is more
    than the specified volume or the vehicle speed is less than the
    specified speed.
    Half Inlet Air Mode Control
    At the time of selecting FRESH mode, A/C ECU will judge it as half
    inlet air mode when the blower outlet mode is selected to FACE or
    BI-LEVEL and TAO is more than the specified temperature, and
    operates both outlet air introduction and inlet air circulation at the
    same time.
    Electric
    Inverter
    Compressor
    Control
    (see page
    BE-110)
    Compressor
    Speed Control

    • ​
    The A/C ECU calculates the target speed of the compressor based
    on the target evaporator temperature (which is calculated by the
    room temperature sensor, humidity sensor, ambient temperature
    sensor, and the solar sensor) and the actual evaporator temperature
    that is detected by the evaporator temperature sensor in order to
    control the compressor speed.

    • ​
    The A/C ECU calculates the target evaporator temperature, which
    includes corrections based on the vehicle interior humidity (which
    is obtained from the humidity sensor) and the windshield glass
    inner surface humidity (which is calculated from the humidity
    sensor, solar sensor, room temperature sensor, mode damper
    position, and wiper operation condition). Accordingly, the A/C
    ECU controls the compressor speed to an extent that would not
    inhibit the proper cooling performance or defogging performance.
    Electric Water Pump Control
    When the blower motor is ON and the engine has been stopped by the
    hybrid control, the A/C ECU turns ON the electric water pump in
    accordance with the judgment of the air mix damper opening.
    (Continued)

    BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING BE-109

    Control Outline
    Engine Start Request Control
    To ensure the proper heater performance when the hybrid system is
    started at low temperatures, the A/C ECU transmits an engine start
    request to the HV ECU in accordance with the TAO, engine coolant
    temperature sensor signal, and ambient temperature sensor signal.
    PTC Heater Control
    When the hybrid system is operating (READY), and the blower
    motor is turned ON, the A/C ECU turns ON the PTC heater if the
    conditions listed below are met.​
    Heater core integrated PTC Heater​
    • ​
    Air outlet is in the FOOT, FOOT/DEF or DEF mode.

    • ​
    Engine coolant temperature is below specified temperature.

    • ​
    Ambient temperature is below specified temperature (DEF mode).

    • ​
    Tentative air mix damper opening angle is above the specified
    value. (MAX HOT)

    Footwell air duct integrated PTC heater​
    • ​
    Air outlet is in the FOOT or FOOT/DEF mode.

    • ​
    Engine coolant temperature is below specified temperature.

    • ​
    Tentative air mix damper opening angle is above the specified
    value. (MAX HOT)
    Electric Cooling Fan Control The A/C ECU control the cooling fan in accordance with the vehicle
    speed signal and compressor speed signal.
    Rear Window
    Defogger Control
    Switches the rear defogger and outside rear view mirror heaters, on
    for 15 minutes when the rear defogger switch is switched on.
    Switches them off if the switch is pressed while they are operating.
    Outer Temperature
    Indication Control
    Based on the signals from the ambient temperature sensor, this
    control calculates the outside temperature, which is then corrected in
    the air conditioning ECU, and shown in the multi display.
    Self-
    Diagnosis
    Checks the sensor and A/C inverter in accordance with operation of
    the air conditioning switches, then heater control panel display
    portion a DTC (Diagnosis Trouble Code) to indicate if there is a
    malfunction or not (sensor check function).
    Drives the actuators through a predetermined sequence in accordance
    with the operation of the air conditioning switches (actuator check
    function).

    BE-110 BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING

    Fuzzy Control​
     ​
    In the conventional automatic air conditioning control system, the A/C ECU calculates the required
    outlet air temperature (TAO: Temperature Air Outlet) for the set temperature in accordance with a
    prescribed calculation formula based on the temperature information obtained from the sensors. By
    automatically controlling the servo motors and the blower motors in order to achieve the TAO that has
    thus been calculated, this system maintains a stable temperature in the vehicle interior and ensures the
    comfort of the occupants. However, the conventional automatic air conditioning control system that
    univocally determines all controls based on the TAO offers a low level of freedom of control (as it was
    an aggregation of linear systems). Therefore, the ’04 Prius has adopted fuzzy control (for non linear
    control) in order to achieve fine-tuned control. The fuzzy control determines the conformity levels of
    the temperature deviation, ambient temperature, and solar radiation by defining their respective
    mathematical functions. In addition, it uses a fuzzy calculation method (algebraic product addition center
    of gravity method) to calculate the required outlet air temperature (TAO) and the blower volume. Based
    on these calculations, the A/C ECU effects the respective controls for the outlet air temperature, blower
    volume, compressor, and air outlet.

     ​
    The conformity levels for the temperature deviations are defined in 9 levels in accordance with the actual
    room temperature and the set temperature, for the solar radiation in 4 levels (low, medium low, medium,
    and high) in accordance with the solar sensor, and for the ambient temperatures in 6 levels (midwinter,
    winter, spring-autumn, spring-summer, and midsummer) in accordance with the ambient temperature
    sensor.

    255BE107​
    Non-Linear Control (Fuzzy Control)​
    Ambient
    Temperature
    Temperature
    Deviation
    Blower
    Volume​
    255BE108​
    Conventional​
    Ambient
    Temperature
    Temperature
    Deviation
    Blower
    Volume​
    BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING BE-111

    Electric Inverter Compressor Control​
    1) Compressor Speed Control​
     ​
    The A/C ECU calculates the target compressor speed based on the target evaporator temperature
    (calculated from the room temperature sensor, humidity sensor, ambient temperature sensor, and solar
    sensor) and the actual evaporator temperature detected by the evaporator temperature sensor. Then, the
    A/C ECU transmits the target speed to the HV ECU. The HV ECU controls the A/C inverter based on
    the target speed data in order to control the compressor to a speed that suits the operating condition of
    the air conditioning system.

     ​
    The A/C ECU calculates the target evaporator temperature, which includes corrections based on the
    vehicle interior humidity (which is obtained from the humidity sensor) and the windshield glass inner
    surface humidity (which is calculated from the humidity sensor, solar sensor, room temperature sensor,
    mode damper position, and wiper operation condition). Accordingly, the A/C ECU controls the
    compressor speed to an extent that does not inhibit the proper cooling performance or defogging
    performance. As a result, comfort and low fuel consumption can be realized.

    255BE109​
    Wiper Switch Wiper Motor Ambient Temp.
    Sensor
    Ambient Temp.
    ECM
    HV ECU
    Inverter
    Control
    A/C Inverter
    Target
    A/C ECU Compressor Speed​
    Calculates the
    target compressor
    speed in
    accordance with
    various input
    conditions.​
    Air Outlet
    Damper
    Position Sensor
    Evaporator
    Temp. Sensor
    Solar Sensor
    Humidity
    Sensor
    Room Temp.
    Sensor
    Electric Inverter
    Compressor​
    BE-112 BODY ELECTRICAL ​
    — AIR CONDITIONING

    Self-Diagnosis​
     ​
    The air conditioning ECU has a self-diagnosis function. It stores any operation failures in the air
    conditioning system memory in the form of a malfunction code. By operating the air conditioning
    control switches, the stored malfunction codes are displayed on the multi display. Since diagnostic
    results are stored directly by electric power from the battery, they are not cleared even when the ignition
    switch is turned off.

     ​
    Functions

    Function Outline
    Indicator Check Checks mode and temperature setting display.
    Sensor Check Checks the past and present malfunctions of the sensors and A/C inverter,
    and clearing the past malfunction data.
    Actuator Check Checks against actuator check pattern if blower motor, servomotors and
    magnetic clutch are operating correctly according to signals from ECU.​
     ​
    The check function can be started by the following procedure shown below.

    241BE167​
    *: Use the switches that are provided on the steering pad switch.​
    Fr DEF*​
    TEMP-*​
    : Indicates a switch operation
    Actuator Check
    (Stepped Operation)
    Actuator Check​
    (Continuous Operation)​
    If both AUTO* and R/F* switches
    are not pressed at the same time.​
    Cancel check Mode​
    (Normal operation now possible)​
    Sensor Check
    (Stepped Operation)
    Sensor Check​
    (Continuous Operation)​
    Indicator Check
    (Continuous Operation)​
    Power switch ON with AUTO*
    and R/F* switches held down.​
    TEMP-*​
    AUTO*
    R/F*
    Fr DEF*
    R/F*
    AUTO*
    R/F*​
    AUTO*​
    Fr DEF*
    Fr DEF*​
    TEMP-*
    TEMP-*​
     ​
    For details on the indicator check, sensor check, actuator check function, and clearing DTC of this

    system, refer to the 2004 Prius Repair Manual (Pub. No. RM1075U).
     
  6. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    :doh: All this time I have thought it meant foot/windshield and never realized it is actually foot/defrost. :doh::doh::doh: The document doesn't say specifically whether the foot/defrost mode would force the A/C compressor on. This morning I tested with my car. In IGN READY mode, outside air was at 64 F, if I set the cabin temperature set point to 65 F (the 2nd lowest setting), then the foot/defrost mode does not turn the A/C compressor on. However if I lower it one last step to the "LO" setting, there comes the "Jill" noise signifying the A/C compressor starting. So at least sometimes the foot/defrost mode would turn the A/C compressor on. During the cold months I have been using the foot/defrost mode so that explains why the A/C compressor have been on sometimes. The A/C computer is probably OK after all.
     
  7. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    How big a job is it to replace the compressor? There are smaller dealers near by and larger dealers farther away. Would a small dealer be able to do it?

    Is the "factory rep" someone working at the dealer? I am not familiar with that.
     
  8. Bear68

    Bear68 Member

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    Compressor replacement on a Prius is not difficult at all. It's actually a little easier thana normal car since there is no drive belt. Even though the compressor is powered by high voltage, once the car is turned off and allowed to sit for 10-15 minutes, there is no voltage left in the compressor and it can be safely replaced by aby qualified technician.

    Any and all dealerships will be equipped to replace a compressor on a Prius whether under warranty or not.

    The factory representative is pretty much what the title implies. He/she travels from dealer to dealer handling issues which are unable to be resolved by the dealership itself. Factory reps generally are only called in for situations in which a decision is required that the dealership's management is not authorized to make.
    Example #1: A customer's car is 2000 miles past it's factory warranty period, but still within the time period for the warranty. There is an issue with the radio not working properly. The dealership is not authorized to replace the radio under warranty since the mileage has expired. The factory rep can make the decision to replace the radio at no charge to the customer, covering the repair under what is known as a Goodwill Policy.
    Example #2: A customer hears a noise which the dealership's technicians determine to be a normal charectoristic of the vehicle, although it seems to be louder than most other vehicles of the same type. The dealership cannot replace the component since, technically, there is nothing wrong with it. The factory rep has the authority to offer a one time replacement to attempt to reduce the noise in an effort to improve customer satisfaction.

    Basically the rep has the authority of Toyota behind him and works directly for Toyota, while the dealership management works for whomever owns the dealership.

    If your car is still under the 3yr/36k warranty, visit your nearest dealer and ask them to compare your car to other similar Prius. Basically, any 2nd Gen Prius. If the other cars do not have the same sound, they should be more than happy to replace the compressor. Especially since that is how they make their money. As a tech, I may not get paid as much to replace a part under warranty as I do when the job is customer pay, but I still make a good living fixing cars. If I don't fix the car, I don't get paid.
     
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  9. Bear68

    Bear68 Member

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    :confused:Please let us know how this plays out.... You definitely have me interested...
     
  10. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    Yes I definitely will, especially I owe you a huge one for your help. :)

    I have a colleague who has a gen II and I will first ask to listen to his car and then go to the dealer so I will have more data.

    I am still wondering whether the noise is coming from the compressor itself or from some related valve opening/closing. It would be a nightmare if I insist the compressor replacement and then the noise is still there after replacement. :eek:
     
  11. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    Well I just listened to the car that my colleague drives. It also has the "Jill" noise, exactly the same sound, though not as loud. Both of us listened to both cars and reached the same conclusion. So my best guess now is that maybe this sound is normal but it has become louder in my car - something may have started to change (go bad?). I will visit the dealer and see what they have to say.
     
  12. Bear68

    Bear68 Member

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    Well, you are definitely walking in fully armed and prepared! My best advice at this point is to call ahead for an appointment (if they do appointments, some don't) give them plenty of time and ask to speak directly to the tech if at all possible. Eliminating one person in the chain of information can help prevent misscommunication. If you have the ability to show them the video you posted earlier it will also help. Please remember, polite persistence. The techs and the dealership people are actually on your side. They only get paid if they can solve your issue and fix your car. It's in their best interest to make you hap as well since Customer Satisfaction is so very important to Toyota right now.

    I would also try to make extra time for the 90L Special Service Campaign, which entails reshaping your accelerator pedal to avoid floor mat interference. My shop just received the templates today and we have already corrected quite a few Prius. Good luck and please keep us informed!!:)
     
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  13. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    Just got back from the dealer this morning 2010/4/21. I said to the adviser (looked like a 15 year old by the way) that I would like to meet the technician and listen to the noise together and got the same answer as from the phone call for appointment: they will look for the noise and if they can't find it they will come get me. I said fine. It's such a small dealer that the restroom is upstairs from the showroom (which is upstairs from the service department), where the offices of the big bosses are. After the restroom visit I went to the parts department to get an oil filter and a drain plug gasket. This involved walking out the show room, passing a small parking strip for certified pre-owned cars, then a cleaning garage - the guy was nice enough to temporarily stop the spray to let me pass without getting wet, then walking down a narrow drive way to the back side of the building where the parts department is. After getting the parts I walked along the back side of the building where all the service bays of the repair shop are - intending to sneak into the shop if I saw my car inside, but I was even luckier: I saw my car parked outside and someone just started checking it out - what a great timing! He walked around the car, checking for body damage I suppose, and then went in the driver seat and popped the hood latch without opening the hood. I walked up and asked if he heard the noise. He said it was normal. We listened to the noise together. I told him that I compared the sound with my friend's car and mine is louder. He said the loudness may vary depending on the mode of operation. Something about a 5 valve system. I said I owned the car for a year and only since the last two weeks when I started hearing the noise. He still thought it was normal and said there are enough things to worry about and this A/C noise needs not to be added to the list. Then he commented that 60 MPG is the highest he had ever seen so far - he usually saw somewhere between 42 and 48. I suppose very few Prius drivers out there drive like priuschatters. :) He seemed more interested in the MPG than the noise and we chatted a little bit about plug-ins, not speeding and not rushing to a red light and brake hard. At the end I asked and got his first name and he also said he was the shop foreman. Dose this mean that he was the most senior technician of the shop? He did not look that old, maybe in his late 30s or early 40s, and he was pretty low key. We shook hand and he had the window washer filled and some lube done for free. He seemed confident and relaxed about the noise issue and was easy to talk with. Back to the service department the adviser didn't even bother to give me a copy of the paperwork until I asked for it. I guess I will let this noise issue as is for a while. At least I now have written proof that I did bring the car in to be checked in case sometime down the road the A/C does fail on me. (Hope not.) :) Many thanks to everyone who helped especially Bear and Patrick. :)

    Neat. Just checked toyotaownersonline.com and the dealer service record is there already. I suppose it's all computer connected nowadays.