Help with Prius Plug in or Prius

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by innerpri, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Let's not forget system warmup when the temperature is below 25°F, as well as the reduced capacity due to the cold and the draw from the heater. Also, the engine will eventually fire up eventually to keep fluids & components fresh, which uses a small amount of gas.

    The like Prius is rather vague, since the plug-in provides 50 MPG combined after depletion. The combined results for Volt is upper 30's. It will be interesting to see how that changes with its next generation, especially since Toyota is working on engine thermal efficiency for Prius.
     
  2. innerpri

    innerpri Junior Member

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    I like the volt, I just can't fit everyone in it. I think a volt wagon would look sweet. I also need to buy this car. Our van, will need to be replaced when my next car is paid for...
     
  3. John H

    John H Senior Member

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    Can you go ahead and provide the details? I know the Volt can do some pre-conditioning while it is plugged in with a remote start. The occasional gas burn on the Volt only happens when you haven't used ANY gasoline for something like 6 weeks, not a bad thing if you ask me.

    I noticed one Volt owner has had as low as 16 MPG in the hybrid mode, mainly because he has only had a total of 10 miles in hybrid mode out of more than 3000. It seems that if your daily drive is ~ 40 miles, you really don't worry about the hybrid mode at all.
     
  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Well I stand corrected MD apparently has cheap elec.
    For my duaghters zipcode in B'more it is 8-9 cents per kwhr.
    Wow PEPCO elec is in news all the time here (for bad service) but at least it is cheaper.
    NoVA is apparently outside of Constellation's coverage area.
     
  5. John H

    John H Senior Member

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    If you buy, you can get the base Volt for about $32K after the $7500 tax credit and dealer incentives, maybe less in MD. But if it doesn't fit then it doesn't fit. Just something to consider if your daily drive is in the ballpark.

    There was a pretty aggressive dealer in MD when I thought about getting another one for my son while he is at GWU. Couldn't find him a parking place though.

    If you have a van, I suspect you have some kids and eventually they will be driving so buying a vehicle now that will work for their first car is a good plan. My kids all drove the 07 Prius through their teen years as a pool car and now my daughter drives it full time. My youngest son wants the Volt when he graduates in May. My oldest is waiting to trade in his Infinity for a Tesla S, as soon as they can get caught up on customer orders. He has to wait at the end of the line. :(
     
  6. John H

    John H Senior Member

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    So wjtracy, at what $/kwh are you going to become a plug-in fan ? :)
     
  7. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I would be a plug-in fan if plug-in was just a standard Prius for not much extra extra cost. I am not opposed to plug-in but I am not going to pay too much premium $$$ for it. I usually keep a car at least 10 yrs so maybe 2016 I would be in the market.
     
  8. Sabby

    Sabby Active Member

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    Original poster

    The price of 6.25 cents per kwh you showed on that linked site is likely for the electricity but does not include the utility costs to deliver the power to your house at the meter. The delivery may be in the 6 cent per kwh range so your total billed cost at the meter for the electricity and delivery will be in the 12 cent range.
     
  9. Sabby

    Sabby Active Member

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    Assuming your recharge cost is about $0.40 per day to go 13 miles you can drive on electric at about $0.03 per mile. On gas that would be about $0.07 per mile at current gas prices. Your daily benefit just going to work each day would be about $0.50. You should think about your other uses of the vehicle to determine if the PIP is a benefit to you.

    This does not consider that use of the heater in the winter will eliminate a portion of the daily benefit.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm paying .16/kwh. if op is getting .06, that's a great deal!
     
  11. John H

    John H Senior Member

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    there is a provider servicing houston that has "free nights", great for Plug-Ins.


    Save With Free Nights Plan | TXU Energy
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    wow, free nights? that's incredible. i wonder what time it starts? washing, a/c, car charging, maybe i could charge a large battery pack and run my house during the day.:p
     
  13. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    poor man's solar panel?:ROFLMAO:
     
  14. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    Nah.. the free power is because tx as so much wind at night they often turn it off or pay people to use it... There is also the catch that the power costs during the day (when people need AC) are higher. So while is green energy.. its not a poor man's solar.. its a wind-rich states dilemma -- use it or loose it.
     
  15. priuskitty

    priuskitty PIP FAN

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    ah........thanks for the info.
     
  16. innerpri

    innerpri Junior Member

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    Sabby, You are correct, checked my bill, 12 cents , about the same for distribution as it is for the cost of the kWh.
    Thanks, So WJtracy you are correct. Were you including distribution in your 12 cents and just wowed by my incomplete data? or are your kwh +distribution.
     
  17. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    OK thanks, my reputation is saved (I can only hope). Keep in mind 12 cents/kwhr is about national average, and electricity is cheap energy compared to gasoline. 12 cents/kwhr is probably equivalent to about $2/gal for gasoline in a Plug-in. So you will still be saving about half on your gasoline for the EV miles. Some of the Prius Chat memebrs in CA and NY are paying closer t0 25 cents/kwhr and that is "break even" on refuel costs. So you are still good, and sounds like MD is giving you quite good tax credits to match feds rebate so you may indeed have a good deal on that PiP plug-in.
     
  18. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    If you were going to get a Prius Three the titling rebate tips it to the PiP (I'd forget the Toyota $2k because you should be able to get similar deals on the liftback. The major Japanese incentives have ended so there should be more than enough Prius supply).

    If you'd just get a Two then it could be a different matter, since that should cut at least another $1.5k off the price, giving a $4k initial differential as well as cheaper insurance. I suggest crunching some numbers for your typical use to compare. Start with the EPA ratings to see what they give you. If that leaves you unsure you can ask for more advice.
     
  19. John H

    John H Senior Member

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    Inexpensive storage is being developed, but not so much at the residential scale. For Texans with the bulk of their load being A/C, there are some HVAC units that make ice at night and then use it to cool the house during the day. Batteries, even lead-acid, get expensive and require substantial replacement and maintenance, just ask the off-grid solar folks. For now, charging a EV at night is pretty advantageous, especially something like a Tesla or Leaf.
     
  20. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    Innerpri, the answer really lies in what you want :) The PiP will certainly use less gas. It will probably not save enough money wise to pay for the cost difference. If the decision is strictly based on return, then its probably not worth it. Its certainly reasonable to quantify how much less gas, and how much more cost and then see if it seems worth it to you.

    At 32 miles per day, you should do about 12-15 miles EV and 45-55mpg for the remaining 17-20 miles. Winter will have lower mpgs and less range, summer more mpgs and more range. So to simplify, lets assume annual average 50mpg HV, 13.5 mi EV range. Assuming you average 32 miles per trip, 6 trips per week, one charge per trip:

    Standard 50mpg Prius:
    32 mi * 6 days / week * 52 weeks per year = 9984 miles per year
    9984 miles /50mpg = 199.7 gallons per year
    199.7 gal * 20.4 lbs CO2/gal = 4074 lbs CO2/yr
    199.7 gal * $4/gal = $798.80

    Plug-in Prius
    18.5 mi * 6 days/week * 52 weeks per year = 5772 gas miles per year
    5772 / 50mpg = 115.4 gallons per year
    13.5 mi * 6 days/week * 52 weeks per year = 4212 EV miles per year
    3.2kWh / charge * 6 days/week * 52 weeks/year = 998.4 kWh/yr
    115.4 gal * 20.4 lbs CO2/gal + 998.4kWH * 1.1 lbs CO2/kwh = 3568 lbs CO2/yr (will vary depending on local CO2/kWh)
    115.4 gal * $4/gal + 998.4 kWh * $0.12/kWh = $581.4

    So, the PiP saves each year:
    84.3 gallons of gasoline (42% reduction)
    479 lbs CO2 (12% reduction)
    $217 in fuel costs (27% reduction)

    So, is it worth it? That's really up to you :)

    Rob
     
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