Here's why the Prime has 4 seats

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by fotomoto, Mar 26, 2016.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's just that a flat bench is much handier for many things, and the raised console will be an obstacle.
     
  2. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    What car holds 3 "normal sized" people in the back? I haven't ridden a hummer, a Van I think is a little wider but not by much...
     
  3. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Last time I had 5 in my little Fiesta, we fitted well - 3 children under 10, my daughter and myself. With 4 seats, we'd have had to decide who had to walk!
     
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  4. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Some mid sized and most all full size sedans and PUs hold 3+ in the back just fine, but no small car does...which the Prius is. So, as I said...what's all the hupla about a 4 vs 5 seater in the 2016. No Prius has ever really been a true 5 seater. The Prius still beats most small cars and even some larger for cargo though. Here's an example below...the Riser(on it's back of course) all the way from Des Moines to Dallas in the back of my 2010 with a 1/4" sheet of plywood bolted to the bottom for rigidity. Also hauled this trailer with this Tool Box using this receiver from Amarillo to Dallas and Denver to Dallas via 70/35. Still think the GEN IV LB and GEN II PIP are ugly, but let's not sell them to short for capability, though the new PIP does come up short on EV miles to compete with the Volt. YMMV.


    Riser, Workstation, 54", Gloss Black (22 7/16" depth)

    https://store.snapon.com/KRL722-Series-Roll-Cabs-Roll-Cab-Double-Bank-11-Drawers-Gloss-Black-P649531.aspx

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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    camry, et al.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I said basically the same when the Volt came out, but the 4 seats were always held up as a con. Which makes it a little surprising that Toyota went with 4 in the Prime. Specially in light of the fact that the Prius was a well rounded car for young families.

    I think the shock about 4 seats is that there is no denying Toyota is trying to go for a different market than the Prius, which might be counter to what many think of the Prius family.
     
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  7. breakfast

    breakfast Active Member

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    I don't think taxi companies would be interested in plug-in vehicles -- they need to be in service all day, and with current Prius technology can't be idle long enough to make efficient use of the plug-in capability. Every hour off the road represents another potential lost fare. A standard hybrid makes much more sense for a taxi today.

    I find the fifth seat to be *very* useful, but there are other cars that get rid of the 5th seat because of weight and suspension issues.

    For example, the BMW 3-series convertible comes to mind - the extra weight of the convertible roof and associated bracing loads the suspension, and they compensate by making it a 4 seater, while the standard 3 series seats 5.

    I understand why Toyota made the decision to trade capacity for efficiency, even as it makes it less likely that some shoppers would buy a Prime.
     
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  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Why raise any doubt? We already know Toyota is reaching out to new consumers.

    I suggest looking at Prime as another offering, not a plug-in version of Prius liftback.
     
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    A small, four door convertible isn't at the top of the list of potential family cars though.

    I understand Toyota's position on trade offs, but I think most Prius shoppers would rather the trade off the other way. Some are already willing to sacrifice more efficiency for space with the Prius v.

    PS: I just found out that Audi was able to put the A3 E-tron's 8.8kWh pack under the rear seat.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it will be interesting to see who these new customers are. the 4 seat car market is quite small.
     
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  11. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Toyota in there interviews said the battery fit fine, and there is plenty of other room for the charger. They would need to increease the structural strenth of the car which would have added weight and cost and reduced efficiency a little. They prioritized the gas efficiency (even if its only a couple of mpg) over the 5th seat.

    Most people that need room for 5 will buy a bigger car than a prius - c-max, camry hybrid, etc. The back seat is fairly small for 5 as it is. Therefore most prius liftback buyers already were fine with 4 seats. My guess is there are a vocal 20% that talk about it but 40% that care (like those that want towing capacity that never tow).

    Now we can look at the blended phev market
    prius prime, c-max energi, fussion energi, bmw 330e, a3 etron, outlander phev, ioniq phev.

    Prius prime has the smallest back seat of all those, and likely would be the lowest choice if you need room for 5. It does carry more cargo than everything but the outlander with the seats up, but passenger space is 9 cu feet less than the c-max.
    Compare Side-by-Side


    action=sbs&id=36932&id=37163&id=37129action=sbs&id=36932&id=37163&id=37129

    On the erev phevs the only 2 i3 and volt are 4 seaters.

    IMHO they should have taken the efficiency hit and done 5 seats, but ... most buyers won't really use that middle center seat. Its a perception thing that toyota could overcome with good dealer training and marketing, but given the assface commercial as example of their marketing, I don't they will do it.

    Still prius prime is going to kick but compared to prius phv gen I ;-)

    I really think toyota can get some of its high tech mojo back with prius prime, but they need to stop with the stupid anti-plug-in talk
     
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    When was anything "anti" actually stated and by who?

    All I've heard was people still hung up on old Lexus ads and interpreting/assuming hydrogen as not being a co-exist product.
     
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  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Well the anti is from the top, and if it stops hey, all the better.
    Chairman of the board uchiyamada bashes plug-ins in every interview. His last was in december. Jim Lentz and Bob Carter which are the top brass of Toyota US bash them at every show. New York is the first auto show where bob carter has not made an assinine anti plug-in statement. These are old dogs, but hundreds of bashing statements. Hell Lentz even bashed the tesla relationship and said he would have sold the tesla stock (when it was at 90) but it wasn't his call.

    WE know this kind of idiocy will hurt toyota's own plug-in sales when those at top of the company tell dealers how bad they are. It just needs to stop.
     
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  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    "bash" is rather vague. Have any detail for us to mull over?
     
  15. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    They are going to keep repeating the "Lexus Ads" for the next 10 years, and then they will start complaining about Elon Musk bashing fuel cells for another 10; Not afraid of the cold: Toyota Mirai launches in Sweden and Norway this summer
     
  16. finman

    finman Senior Member

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  17. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    How do you suggest educating consumers about hybrids?

    The "stupid" interpretation seems overly simplistic, not recognizing growing confusion in the market from some having plugs and others not.
     
  18. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    If it's a cheap swipe, I agree...but lot's of media reports use the word "hybrid" to mean Plug-ins, so there is a huge need for clarity. Many regulators proposing to tax "hybrids" have no idea they do not use electricity. When I send a note to a state regulator, the first paragraph is just to define the terms.
     
    #38 wjtracy, Mar 30, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  19. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    But you own a "Leaf" which is of course a full electric and plug in. So with all due respect, I think you're taking the "You Don't Have To Plug It In" a little personal.

    As an owner of a non-plug in Hybrid, I see it as pure education. Even with the years and years of Prius existence, I've been somewhat surprised at the number of people I meet that don't get the "Hybrid" concept.

    I get people in parking lots asking me where I plug my Prius in, and how long the charge lasts. A lot of people outside of the Hybrid, Electric, world, really don't know how to separate the two or what separates the two.

    It's also not so unprecedented. Early, early ads for The Prius touted the reality that you didn't have to plug it in. We've just come a long way, in terms of now having more full EV and plug in options. But not everybody has kept up with what that means.

    In general, a vehicle like The Leaf's battle cry is obviously...you don't have to fill it with gasoline. I don't take that as a criticism of Hybrids, just the truth, and evolution and expansion of option.
     
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  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    I agree, but still, I'd like to have that center seat belt, for the once in a while that you have to have it, or somebody's got to take a taxi.
     
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