"High Fidelity"/Stereo: CDs That Superior To 45 RPM Records?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Kelly @ Jun 16 2007, 07:57 PM) [snapback]463168[/snapback]</div>

33-1/3 High Quality vinyl and High Quality reel to reel tape gave the best audio performance for analog systems.
8-track suffered from significant wow and flutter (speed variation) and cassettes run too slow to reproduce high frequencies well.
A well done CD can reproduce the full audio range (20Hz to 20kHz) and has a dynamic range of up to 90 dB (difficult to do in vinyl or tape), but suffers phase distortion from the sophisticated filters required to avoid aliasing. Professional digital audio increases the sample rate fro 44.1 kHz to 196 kHz to avoid this effect.

All-in all a well made CD gives better results than an average LP vinyl record, but is not quite as good as a high-end vinyl recording.

Note that there is some loss of fidelity when compressing CD audio to MP3, but as you note, we old "farts" can't hear the difference.

JeffD

 

Well, I don't have any measurement equipment to go by, but my father and I had the same song on the same album - same company produced both albums. His was LP; mine was CD. All I used were my "young ears", and I was able to tell the difference.

I distinctly remember that the song recorded on the LP sounded clear, without distortion, and made my cd sound low-definition by comparison.

Honestly, I believe that recording quality has been on a steady decline over the past few decades. Longevity, though, is vastly improved, IMO.

 

The CD media has the capability for the most distortion-free recording & greatest dynamic range (things commonly associated with high fidelity). There have been a number of investigations published in the past year, however, that show most recording companies do not make use of that capability. Instead, they boost the recording loudness resulting in considerable clipping of the waveform, so that the music will sound "brighter" and more exciting. Many CD recordings have no more "fidelity" than a compressed MP3 file.

You don't need hi-priced equipment to demonstrate this to yourself. Take an LP (from that box in the garage), and find a recent CD (perhaps even of the same LP if you can). Record the LP to hard disk using coolPro Edit or another digital recording application. Rip an equivalent file from the CD and compare the waveforms in the digital editing window. I did this recently with a Jefferson Starship LP & CD and got depressed, and then pissed off.

 

I prefer SACD or DVD Audio to CD any day of the week. Full rich sound. I have several modern albums, like the latest Bob Dylan and the latest Stooges (which has bonus tracks not on the CD), and they sound much better then standard CD. Of course, now they press albums on virgin vinyl, and it's thicker, and I think they spend more time on the pressings.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(samiam @ Jun 16 2007, 11:52 PM) [snapback]463283[/snapback]</div>

You make it sound so easy. I recently bought an ION USB turntable, which sounds absolutely terrible. (I think I must have a faulty one and am in discussions with tech support.) I have my old turntable somewhere, but the rest of the system is shot. Just how did you put the music from your LPs on your computer?

My LPs went to college and grad school with me, so they may not be worth duplicating.... But some aren't available on CDs so I'd like to give it a shot.

Thanks!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jun 18 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]463676[/snapback]</div>

Two different computers, a different way for each.

Computer 1 has a creative labs sound board with a stereo input jack, direct input from the turntable using coolPro Edit as the capture software.

Computer 2 has a Pinnacle audio/video digital capture board, direct input from turntable, again using coolPro Edit.

My turntable has selectable output, preamped or no preamped signal. If your computer requires preamped signal in you may have to put the turntable in to your amplifier/receiver and take an aux out from there to your computer.

Hope this helps, I've been slowly going through our old boxes of LPs this way, hard to find the time to do it, but always a great reward to recover the music (we don't have the turntable attached to our stereo for lack of space).

 

I enjoy the warm sound of LPs better than CDs. These days I collect records and scour old shops and eBay for them. It's a fun hobby, especially if you run across some really rare stuff (like Caruso on 78)

I've been using this product to convert my favorite records to MP3s:

http://www.dak.com

The software is not the most intuitive, but it gets the job done. The package comes with all the necessary hardware so you don't have to do much. Just hook it up and go.

 

There is a reason most of today's music all sounds the same. The human ear/mind can detect a highly-digitized voice, as most are today. Some artists have used this to great effect to mark their own sound, such as Ozzy Osborne. Avril Lavigne's vocal work also has a very specific computerized effect applied to it. It's since been copied by other, newer female artists, and the net effect is they sound exactly like her.

The human eye/mind is also just as capable of detecting what I like to call Digital Surrealism. While digital effects have come a long way, you still lack a sense of depth in a wide shot that can only be obtained by the traditional method of using matte paintings on glass. A modern visual effects-filled movie can look like a moving Rembrandt painting - wonderful - even beautiful - but not easily mistaken for reality. You can fool the eye much easier with scale than you can medium. A small Death Star model looks more real to the human eye/mind than a digital version, even though the digital version is technically superior in detail.

Digital is a good thing, in that we no longer have cassette tapes mushing our highs and dragging when they get too tight; however, we no longer have an analog medium to warm and soften the digital effects that are increasingly used in music today. Remember when the first audio CDs were simply the analog reel-to-reel tapes recorded back to digital? Now everything is pretty much full digital and something wonderful has been lost.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(samiam @ Jun 17 2007, 11:49 PM) [snapback]463760[/snapback]</div>

Thank you. Never thought to look to see what kind of inputs my computer takes beyond USB! (I'm a real techie, you can tell.)

I am sure it takes forever. We have boxes and boxes of LPs with no where to put them. They'll warp in the attic or other uncooled space. I'm about to drop them off at Goodwill, but can't quite make myself do it....

 

While some people claim that vinyl sounds better than Cds, I am a klutz, and by the time I had listened to a vinyl record 3 or 4 times, it would have at least one scratch, and my older records were badly scratched. CD is better for me because an old one is as reliable as a new one.

Since I listen mostly to classical music, I don't run into the level of artificial manipulation that's put into pop music. The best music I've ever listened to was from CDs when I had a really good set of speakers. The speakers make a tremendous difference.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ Jun 20 2007, 03:15 AM) [snapback]464662[/snapback]</div>

Don't do it then! Bring in a few at a time and put them under the computer desk with the turntable and some blank CDs set up nearby. Next time you are at the computer pick a side and record it. Its very rewarding. After all, at some point you liked that music enough to buy the album (unless you stole it from that ex-girl/boyfriend).

Its better than a photoalbum for stirring up memories, and you get to pick your own coverart for the CD.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(samiam @ Jun 19 2007, 05:00 PM) [snapback]464880[/snapback]</div>

Some I do like very, very much. Which is why am still hanging on....

I need to get my technical issues worked out and do as you say -- a few every day would take care of everything.

Thanks for the encouragement!

 

I have a USB turntable, made by Numark, and it's quite good at allowing me to take my records and convert them (are you Jewish, I say to my records...they say, 'oy' and then I try to convert them.....sorry, old Mel Brooks reference)

This may be the best way to transfer your records to the computer. The turntable came with software as well.



http://www.amazon.com/Numark-TTUSB-Turntab...B/dp/B000G3FNVM

 

The Numark is a very good option. I would have gotten something like that except that I still had my old turntable and wasn't ready to part with it (for sentimental reasons)

If you want to cut the PC out of the picture entirely, here's another cool option (for a few extra bucks)

LP-to-CD Recorder Stereo System

 

Those are both neat -- but pretty pricey for us cheap-skates.

I got the pre-amped turntable I'm using for $79 NZD (currently about $60 US) from Dick Smith Electronics (the equivalent of Radio Shack).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(samiam @ Jun 20 2007, 05:08 PM) [snapback]465426[/snapback]</div>

The turntable I have cost about $139. US, of course, so I am not sure what it would be for you...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zenMachine @ Jun 20 2007, 01:01 PM) [snapback]465292[/snapback]</div>

Wow! That is pretty cool! I may have to get one of those...

 

Being young enough to not have any lengthy experience with vinyl, I can't comment on the "warmth" of the analog sound.

I agree with Daniel that digital can sound completely natural and beautiful, like you're in the room with the musician. The digital "effects" used in popular music have absolutely nothing to do with the recording medium. These are added to create a certain effect, often one that is not attainable in the "real" world. But this is as old as the electric guitar, so it's not a digital phenomenon per se, just an electronic one.

I actually have done some recording of my own original music. A professional sound card, software recorder, and mic (total maybe $700?), and away you go. You can layer multiple takes, multiple tracks. No, it's not reality, but it is a lot of fun! I get to sing harmony with myself and play two or three different instruments. Being that I have a day job and a family, a gig band is not realistic right now, but recording my music gives me creative outlet.

So, I'm all into the digital age. And as someone said, there is a new generation that is higher fidelity than CDs, although I'm not sure how much us humans will be able to tell...

 

Why New Music Doesn't Sound As Good As It Did

...The key to the problem is that, in making the soft parts of a track louder (in the process making the entire track loud), you lose detail in the song: The difference between what's supposed to be loud and what's supposed to be soft becomes less and less. The result is that, sure, the soft parts of a song are nice and loud, but big noises like drum beats become muffled and fuzzy. But consumers often subconsciously equate loudness with quality, and thus, record producers pump up the volume...