Hillary + Obama = 08

Hillary would have to run a 'perfect' campaign to win and probably have a major right-leaning third party candidate to siphon off some conservative votes. Most Democrats I know are scared to death of her running. There is 42-47% of the population that would not vote for her no matter who is running with her and what she says. The Democratic Party is afraid a Hillary-led ticket would turn back all of the gains the Democrats made in the last election.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Dec 14 2006, 10:35 AM) [snapback]362139[/snapback]</div>

I do not think her negative #'s have been below 40% for years - so she is forfeiting a HUGE % of the general population. And she is just such a cold hearted, self-centered, true believing, self-serving, gold-digging, sacrifice everything for personal gain, person...

There is no plastic surgery for her personality :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Dec 14 2006, 09:18 AM) [snapback]362128[/snapback]</div>

I'm sorry, but a quick search of news articles doesn't seem to entirely support what you're saying:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/1241...obama05.article

The article says that Obama paid $1.65 million for the mansion (doesn't say anything about a discount), while Rezko paid $625,000 for the empty lot. Also remember that real estate deals are fluid and more often than not negotiated - your claim of a 300k discount in this case would only be applicable if they were purchasing identical properties - they were not. It's entirely possible that there was no negotiating for an empty lot, while there were items to negotiate for a mansion (for example, maybe the roof will need to be replaced in a few years, so they knocked off a bit of the price, etc).

As for the purchase of the strip of land... the article doesn't say how big it was, but it does say that Obama paid $104,500 for it, which was above market price.

Please present factual information and link to articles to support newsworthy claims, especially when using those claims to attempt to detract from someone's character.

 

If Hillary was 30 years younger and her skirt 30 cm shorter, we'd have enough scandal to make her popular, the biggest of which would be that her husband was chasing her around.... :lol: :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Dec 14 2006, 11:05 AM) [snapback]362155[/snapback]</div>

Is Obama a wealthy guy? If so, how? Did he lead a silver spoon life to date? Interesting...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Dec 14 2006, 10:56 AM) [snapback]362146[/snapback]</div>

I love that line.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Dec 14 2006, 10:05 AM) [snapback]362156[/snapback]</div>

If she runs at least we will get a run-down of all of the women Bill has been bangin'since he left office. It will provide for some great entertainment! :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Dec 14 2006, 11:19 AM) [snapback]362171[/snapback]</div>

I can tell you one who he was not [banging] :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Dec 14 2006, 10:35 AM) [snapback]362180[/snapback]</div>

She always appears to be a real fun-lover!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Dec 14 2006, 10:16 AM) [snapback]362168[/snapback]</div>

Obama's history is actually rather interesting when you look into it. His father was black, his mother white. they divorced when he was young, after which his mother married an Indonesian oil manager. During his time in Jakarta, he spent two years in a Muslim school, and two years in a Catholic school before returning to Hawaii to live with his grandparents and attend school there.

I would say his early life was probably above average, but by no means wealthy. After he graduated from Columbia, he worked for a non-profit for a short while, then went to Harvard to study law. He met his wife while working at a law firm - We all know how lawyers tend to make a lot of money.

In addition to that, he's published 3 books, making a deal for them in late 2004 earning him $1.9 million (arguably where most of his wealth came from). He's also even won a Grammy Award in 2006 for Best spoken word album.


So like i said, he was above average, but i can't find anything that spells out exactly how much money his parents had, etc... I wouldn't say he was silver spooned, at least not nearly as much as the political families that have been running around in Washington circles for the past 100 years.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Dec 14 2006, 10:05 AM) [snapback]362155[/snapback]</div>

I'm not sure what the post limit is here if any, so I'll start by referencing the specific quote from the Chicago Tribune article, then go on to see if I can post much of the CT quoted piece since it may require people to get a login(free) to the Chicago Trib site.


Article

Chicago Tribune article about the Obama - Rezko deal.


Rezko owns vacant lot next to Obama's home

By Ray Gibson and David Jackson
Tribune staff reporters
Published November 1, 2006


When Sen. Barack Obama decided to buy a stately $1.65 million home last year on Chicago's South Side, Antoin "Tony" Rezko and his wife wasted no time. The same day the Obamas closed on the house, the Rezkos closed on the purchase of the adjoining vacant lot, which once was the estate's lush side yard.

In normal circumstances, the two real estate transactions probably wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. There is, after all, nothing illegal or untoward about an aggressive developer buying hot property next door to a rising political star.


But these are not normal times for either Obama or Rezko, two longtime friends whose fortunes have taken sharp turns in opposite directions.

Illinois' junior U.S. senator has become a political star, riding a surge of popularity that has made him a top potential candidate for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination.

Rezko, meanwhile, has achieved notoriety of a different sort. In October, he pleaded not guilty to federal charges involving pay-to-play allegations that surround Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich's administration.

Now the hows and whys of a real estate deal, and a train of subsequent transactions, are raising questions about the relationship between the two men, as Obama struggles to distance himself from Rezko, and Rezko strives to stay out of prison.

Over the last 16 months, as they jointly worked to improve their side-by-side properties, the two men entered an ongoing series of personal financial arrangements. Because Rezko was widely reported to be under federal grand jury scrutiny, Obama said he was careful to ensure their transactions were ethical and proper.

"My working assumption was that as long as I operated in an open, up-front fashion, and all the T's were crossed and I's were dotted, that it wouldn't be an issue," Obama said. "If it was a neighbor I didn't know at all, would I have behaved any differently? I felt like the answer was no."

Obama added: "Tony has been a supporter of mine since my first race for state Senate."

And he said: "I haven't been involved with him in any legislative work whatsoever or any government activities of any sort."

For years, it's been Rezko's practice to befriend up-and-coming political figures, from Blagojevich to the godson of former County Board President John Stroger. Rezko often weaves those political friendships into business ventures.

Rezko first reached out to Obama in about 1990 when the future senator made headlines as the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review. Rezko and two real estate partners called out of the blue to offer a job building inner-city homes.

"I said no, but I remained friendly with all three of them," Obama said. "All three of them remained great contributors of mine."

Over the years Rezko and Obama shared lunch "once or twice a year, although that's just an estimate," the senator said. As couples, the Rezkos and Obamas dined perhaps "two to four times ... in the time that I've known him."

One of Illinois' most prominent local Democratic fundraisers, Rezko and his companies donated at least $8,000 to Obama's state Senate campaigns and $11,500 to Obama's federal fund. (Obama has said he will divest those federal donations.) Rezko also hosted a 2003 event to boost Obama's campaign fund.

Obama and his wife were already flush with success when they went house hunting last year. Their combined income--bolstered by payments for his best-selling autobiography and advances for future books--topped $1.67 million. His wife, Michelle, had recently been promoted to a $316,962-a-year position as vice president at the University of Chicago Hospitals.

House has 4 fireplaces

They were drawn to a 96-year-old Georgian revival home that has four fireplaces, glass-door bookcases fashioned from Honduran mahogany, and a 1,000-bottle wine cellar, according to real estate listings and an interview. The house and the adjoining yard--which is surveyed as a separate lot--are rimmed by 12-foot-tall evergreens.

In the past, the two lots had been sold as a single estate. But in 2005, the owners listed the two parcels for sale separately.

Obama said his family's real estate broker brought the house to his wife's attention. He said he discussed the house with Rezko but isn't sure how Rezko began pursuing the adjacent lot. But Obama raised the possibility that he was the first to bring the lot to Rezko's attention.


"I don't recall exactly what our conversations were or where I first learned, and I am not clear what the circumstances were where he made a decision that he was interested in the property," Obama said.

"I may have mentioned to him the name of [a developer and] he may at that point have contacted that person. I'm not clear about that," Obama said

The neighborhood wasn't new to Rezko, whose companies had purchased numerous South Side properties.

Obama said he and Rezko had no prior agreement about Rezko's plans for the garden parcel.

"My understanding was that he was going to develop it," Obama said.

It was "already a stretch" to buy the house, Obama said, so the vacant lot was not affordable for his family.

The Obamas bought the house in June 2005 for $1.65 million--some $300,000 less than the asking price--and secured a $1.32 million mortgage from Northern Trust.

Rezko's wife, Rita, bought the adjoining lot the same day, paying the full $625,000 asking price with the help of a $500,000 mortgage from Mutual Bank of Harvey. The Rezkos declined to comment for this article.

The Obamas wanted a fence between the parcels. They hired an attorney and architects within a month of their purchase to seek guidance about the fence from the Commission on Chicago Landmarks.

Michelle Obama had served on the commission from 1998 to March 2005, and she contacted the staff about the fence. On July 15, 2005, a city landmarks deputy commissioner, Brian Goeken, sent a long e-mail to Michelle Obama saying he had gone out one evening to look at the house. He listed suggestions for obtaining a permit for the fence.

Goeken declined to comment for this article.

Over the next six months, the Obamas' architect had several conversations with city officials about whether to relocate portions of the existing fence or build a new, compatible one.

Architect Wil Taubert said in an interview that he dealt only with the Obamas.

"I knew somebody owned the corner but I never asked who it was," Taubert said.

Though the Obamas laid the groundwork, Rezko agreed to build and pay for the $14,000 fence that runs along their property line.

Fence required by city

Obama said Rezko paid for the fence because a city ordinance compelled Rezko to fence the line between his vacant lot and their house. He added that both men agreed there were broader reasons for a fence.

"I had had a conversation with him in which I indicated that it probably was important for us to have a separation of the properties because the property was all one piece, it wasn't really demarcated, and I did think that it was important for there not to be any perception whatsoever that somehow I was having any use of their property," Obama said.

"Partly because Michelle had already been on Landmarks, partly because we're well-known neighbors ... I felt it was important to make sure that all the T's were crossed and I's were dotted in terms of compliance with landmarks," he said. "I thought it would be embarrassing if somehow whatever fence was erected didn't comply."

Obama said he funded the architectural and legal work because "if somebody walked by, they would assume that it was on my property and so it was important from my perspective that it be done right."

Obama said he didn't know exactly how much he spent on the architectural, landscaping and legal work that enabled Rezko to acquire a fence permit in January 2006.

"My suspicion is that it would probably be a couple of thousand dollars. On the architectural side it might be more," he said. "I think legal fees were a couple thousand."


To preserve the aesthetic balance, Obama also wanted to put some space between his house and the proposed fence, so he personally asked Tony Rezko if they would sell a portion of their lot without restricting their ability to build in the future.

"I told them if you can spare another 5 or 10 feet, I'd be happy to purchase it from you," Obama said. "They came back and said they could sell us up to 10 feet."

Using a standard formula, Obama's appraiser estimated the 1,500-square-foot portion at a market value of $40,500.

But Obama felt it would be fair to pay the Rezkos $104,500, or a sixth of their original $625,000 purchase price, because he was acquiring a sixth of their land. The sale closed in January 2006.

That month, the fabricator hired by Rezko began building the fence, which sits immediately on top of the property line. Five months later, in May, Advance Welding & Construction sent one of Rezko's companies a $14,300 invoice that stated, "All work is completed."

Obama said he and his family have never used the Rezko yard--even for a brief picnic or Frisbee game. But Obama said he pays his landscaper to mow Rezko's 7,500-square-foot yard.

A person can't enter the Rezko lot from the street--but Obama's groundskeeper gets in through the gate that opens from Obama's lot.

Service mows both lawns

"Right now my landscaper who comes and does all my work, I have asked him to go ahead and mow the lawn on the other side," Obama said.

"My intention was to have the landscaper figure out some pro-rata cost for that mowing and send that bill to Rezko," Obama said. "I just haven't had time to do it."

The lawn-mowing bill that he plans to send Rezko "can't be more than three or four hundred, a thousand dollars," Obama added.

The bill for the new fence has yet to be paid, according to Advance President Raymond Oshana and Michael Sreenan, an attorney who represented the Rezkos in transactions pertaining to the fence and garden lot.

That may be because Tony Rezko is embroiled in debt and business difficulties as well as legal trouble. The federal charges against Rezko include allegations that he defrauded a lender to keep one business venture afloat.

But the garden lot may yet be developed.

Sreenan and a Rezko company accountant in October formed a corporation that Sreenan said will try to purchase the lot from Rita Rezko and build there.

While no sale has taken place, "We're hoping to move ahead on development," Sreenan said.

It was premature to discuss details, Sreenan said, but one thing was sure about this potential venture: "It will be entirely separate from Mr. Rezko."

----------

[email protected]

[email protected]

 

All the same, it's entirely possible that the difference between asking price and what he paid was due to conditions in the house and negotiating. It's hard to negotiate prices for an undeveloped plot - it is as it is. But when a house is present, there are all sorts of things that have to be considered, like repairs. When you do the math, it ends up being 15% lower than the initial asking price. When my parents purchased their house, they paid 40k under the asking price - or 13% lower. Does that mean anything about my parents, other than them being good negotiators? I know several people who purchased undeveloped plots, and none of them were able to get anything more than a 2% difference from the asking price.

 

So far no one has brought up the obvious. After junior has run this country's debt into the ground and ruined our standing abroad, the democrats could run a gerbil and a mongoose and still win. It's the perfect time for a woman and/or person of color to run and win. I believe the real question is who would be fool enough to want to run when there is so much damage done and so many pieces left to pick up after the republican debacle, that international laughing stock who has managed to ruin us in 6 very short years. I'd vote for dirt before I trusted them to have another go.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Dec 14 2006, 01:12 PM) [snapback]362310[/snapback]</div>

This doesn't say anything about your parents, but appears to say something about you.

The man has a pretty big character flaw and you are wantingly doing any justification possible to overlook it.

I'm ok with that... You got your thing to do, go do it... Anyone who was asking to see the obvious about Obama has this article to set the stage.


Maybe it's just odd that the discounts didn't fall to the dirty political campaign contributor while Obama had to pay full price. Yeah... that's it, random luck...


There's probably nothing weird about the property normally (historically) having been sold as a single holding, but since Obama couldn't quite afford the whole thing, in steps the dirty campaign lobbiest to buy the vacant extra piece in order to make the deal happen... And when the deal went down, only the $300k discount showed up on the house side of the bargain, and none for the empty lot side of the closing. If the whole place was worth 2.3mil, at least some part of a 13% discount would 'normally' fall on the vacant lot.

 

Obama's answer regarding the house price:
Q: Why is it that you were able to buy your parcel for $300,000 less than the asking price, and Rita Rezko paid full price? Who negotiated this end of the deal? Did whoever negotiated it have any contact with Rita and Tony Rezko or their Realtor or lawyer?
A: Our agent negotiated only with the seller's agent. As we understood it, the house had been listed for some time, for months, and our offer was one of two and, as we understood it, it was the best offer. The original listed price was too high for the market at the time, and we understood that the sellers, who were anxious to move, were prepared to sell the house for what they paid for it, which is what they did.
We were not involved in the Rezko negotiation of the price for the adjacent lot. It was our understanding that the owners had received, from another buyer, an offer for $625,000 and that therefore the Rezkos could not have offered or purchased that lot for less.

And in the Chicago area right now, unfortunately, what Obama paid for the house isn't extraordinary.

 

I'm not "overlooking a big character flaw" - i'm offering an explanation that fits the facts. Instead, you seem to be looking for a reason to dislike this guy - IMO, negotiating for a lower price on a house isn't a valid reason for disliking a politician, as it's common practice for everyone to do it. Go find something he's done thats actually crooked or wrong, and i'll listen and not argue it. If this house deal is the worst you've got, then i'd say this guy is cleaner than any other politician in DC since Washington.

 

Don't take it personally, Eagle. Daron is just trying to keep his BS skills sharp. You never know when a stolid 'pubican will be called to swift-boat someone.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Dec 14 2006, 11:19 AM) [snapback]362315[/snapback]</div>

You underestimate the gullibility of the American public.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Dec 14 2006, 11:09 AM) [snapback]362302[/snapback]</div>

I see nothing shady in the article. Depending on the real estate market, the sale price for a house is usually less than the asking price. No seller lists a house for the amount he expect to get. He asks more, because he knows a serious buyer will offer less and they will both expect to bargain. The surprising thing is the Rezko's wife was willing to pay the asking price for the lot. But if the Rezko's wanted to be near Obama, that does not reflect badly on Obama. Unless you figure that the neighboring property was bound to be worth more because of the famous neighbor, and telling Rezko that he was going to buy was akin to passing on inside information. But I'd say that's a stretch.

Oh, I just read Megan's post, explaining the pricing of the house and the lot.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KMO @ Dec 14 2006, 06:41 AM) [snapback]362088[/snapback]</div>

Its what each person is known popularly by. "Hillary" and "Obama".

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Dec 14 2006, 10:10 AM) [snapback]362125[/snapback]</div>

The reason she stayed with Bill is nothing so "Desperate Housewives". She's a very driven, and ambitious person. She recognized in Bill the ability to achieve great things politically, and she's stuck around all this time riding his coat tails (and pushing along behind him) waiting for her time to step out from his shadow and achieve her own political success. She will run in 08 believe me, she might win the nomination but that will all but ensure a republican win in the general.

As for the house. I'm a real estate broker, and on a $1.65 Million house, negotiating $300,000 off the list price is not extraordinary at all. Thats 18%. The market slows down from the top down, that is sales of the most expensive properties slow down WELL before sales of more moderately priced properties. We've seen a slowdown in housing markets nationwide and at least in metro Washington the slow down in the $1.5 Million + bracket really started late 04 into early 05. In June 2005, the market for properties at that price point was pretty slow. Any strong agent could have negotiated a deal for 18% in a subsidy from the seller. here anyways, all markets are different.

As for the lot, a $600,000 lot is in an entirely different price class than a $1.65 Million house, remember what I said. The market slows from the top down. A lot in a neighborhood like that is an extremely rare and valuable commodity. He'd be far less likely to get a deal on that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Dec 14 2006, 11:19 AM) [snapback]362315[/snapback]</div>

The early polling shows that Senator Clinton is virtually unbeatable in the general election by any of the likely Republican candidates. Especially the right wing candidates like Mitt Romney, who looks like a Bush clone to people. I think Mayor Guilliani did the best in a head to head comparison, but I have my doubts as to whether Rudy can make it through the Republican primaries (which are dominated by social and religious conservatives).

Dick Morris had an interesting solution to that: Rudy or McCain as the nominee and Secretary Rice as VP, or Rice as the nominee with a moderate Republican 2nd on the ticket. In the polling, adding Secretary Rice to the ticket peels off quite a bit of the black vote, and she pulls nearly 90% of married women (the "soccer moms"). She also appeals to the religious right, and can therefore get through the primaries where the religious folks hold so much sway.

But Ms. Clinton probably has the nomination, if she wants it, and I suspect she does. And she will probably win, and do a respectable job as President, as her husband did. She has shown that she can moderate her more extreme views and not be so threatening in her tenure as Senator, so I think the overblown fear of her right now will actually work in her favor. Sort of like Reagan, and his famous "There you go again" comment that devastated VP Mondale's campaign.

When she appears reasonable and not quite the "cold hearted" person people perceived her as in the past, people will give her more than the benefit of the doubt. She could even be a sympathetic figure in terms of the past scandals as the woman who maintained the family even while her tom-catting husband flagrantly betrayed her.