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Home single-pole wall switch question

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Stevewoods, Oct 13, 2022.

  1. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    I must have replaced a few dozen home lighting wall switches in my time, but this one has me a little leery, although I THINK I know what to do -- but that can get me in serious trouble when dealing with electricity.

    Anyway, have a "new" old house and the wall switch for the overhead light in the master bedroom has decided to wear out -- no problem -- replaced many of them as I said -- but this is the first time I have pulled one at this house and I see something I am a bit baffled by....three wires -- well four if you count the ground.

    As I hope you can see in the picture -- at the top of the switch is a red wire attached to the side of the switch with the common screw assembly, but immediately adjacent to the red wire, a black wire has been stabbed into the back wire slot. So, two wires up top -- red and black.

    At the bottom another black wire has been shoved into the bottom back wire slot. That's all except for the ground wire on the other side of the switch.

    This switch controls nothing other than the 60-watt overhead light on the bedroom ceiling.

    So, what do I do. I NEVER use the backwire slots. Indeed, I always buy heavy-duty switches and they don't have the slots. So, I have an Eaton Single Pole replacement switch that has three screws. Two on the right side plus a third screw on the bottom left side for the ground wire.

    Do I buy another switch that has both the backwire and the screw connections and copy that? Do I try to shove both of the top wires under the top screw? 1013221359.jpg
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that's a 3 way switch, so another switch controls the same circuit
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    wait, is the top black connected to the red? it looks like they tapped L1 for something else, but no L2?

    is there a terminal screw on the other side?
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Anyway of trying to figure out if the if all those wires are needed? Maybe they were for an older fixture(ceiling fan?), or also control an outlet.
    You'd 'pig tail' the two to a short lead with a wire nut, and connect the lead to the terminal, if you go that route.
     
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  5. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Just buy a switch that has the same connections as the old one.......or one with TWO screws at each connection point.
    Or do what you said. Or use a wire nut like someone else said.

    That red wire likely feeds another switch or outlet nearby via a 3-wire plus ground cable.
     
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  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    If you just cap off the red wire with a wire nut, does anything quit working?
    If it were a 3-way, one of the non-ground wires would be on the far side.
     
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  7. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    O.K. Darkness is descending and wife was "gently" :whistle::whistle: asking if I was going to finish this "day-long" project anytime soon -- shoo -- only been working on it four hours -- including time to drive to hardware store and buy a new switch (and a 12-pack of "barley malt").

    So, I took some of the advice and went with it and bought an exact same switch design I was replacing -- except the replacement has a lighted toggle switch -- all they had -- and it cost $7.49 USD. Also, the original only had backstabs on one side -- the same side as the two screws. The new switch only had screws on the one side, but had backstabs on all sides.

    So, I backstabbed the two black wires into the new switch in the same order as the old switch and attached the red wire to the top screw. -- same as I found it on the broken switch and attached the ground. Gritted my teeth and threw the breaker to on.

    No sparks, no smoke, but the ceiling light lit right up and the toggle switch has a nice, gentle glow. Ah, well, I can live with the lighted toggle.

    Thanks everyone. Now to try the Lost Coast IPA -- shoo -- I screwed up, I was supposed to drink the IPA first and then tackle the switch. Wifey yammering made me lose track of the process. ;)

    And, sorry Fuzzy one, did not see your question until after I buttoned it all up. So, guess we will never know if capping the red wire would result in something or other.
     
    #7 Stevewoods, Oct 13, 2022
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2022
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  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Could the extra wire just have been for the toggle light, and the old one's light was out?
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I subscribe to the “if it was working, just wire new switch exactly the same” method. I know, but it’s worked so far.
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i wouldn't be able to sleep not knowing...
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    although a 12 pack might fix that...
     
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  12. Doug McC

    Doug McC Active Member

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    You could always take a look at the light fixture and see what you can find there. There is a possibility that there was a fan there at one point (though it would be a screwy way to wire it up). I wouldn’t leave it that way until I figured it out. I have this aversion to dying in a burning house (no matter how long a messed up electrical system had been there).
    Another thought: are you absolutely sure the original switch was bad? Could it be something else was causing the problem and trying to tell you “I need fixing”?
     
  13. Doug McC

    Doug McC Active Member

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    That red wire and black wire are both hot. They are BOTH feeding something and I would not rest until I found out what they were feeding.
     
  14. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    Seems to be some interest in this -- so I think I HAVE AN ANSWER.

    Though real estate agents mostly seem to frown on it (why?) whenever I have purchased a house, I always try to get contact information for the previous owner -- and it has come in handy.


    In this case, I have the phone number of the previous owner -- he and his wife were just too frail to continue living on their own.

    So, I called him Friday evening. He was actually glad to talk. The master bedroom, where all this is taking place originally had no lights -- meaning if you wanted lights, you set up something that plugged into one of the wall sockets and the switch I just replaced controlled one or some of the outlets along the wall...I don't know which as we are only using two such outlets and neither seem affected by the wall switch. That switch had no other purpose at that time.

    In 2009, his wife decided she wanted a ceiling light. They have a son-in-law who is a licensed electrician. They had him install the ceiling light in the bedroom. So, I am guessing that explains all this?

    And, yes, the switch had gone bad as far as I could tell. It was one of those $1.77 USD switches that probably cost electricians 40 cents USD. New switch is working fine, but I would have rather used the "bombproof" switch I was originally going to install. Never had one of those gone bad.


     
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  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I thought it a long shot guess, since why would you have a ceiling light and outlet wired to the same switch.
     
  16. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    Probably quickest way to get out of the situation. I assume son-in-law was anxious to be done and get back to his weekend.
     
  17. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Its pretty common. A better switch can take two wires under a plate pressed in by the screw. No backstabbing necessary.
     
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  18. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    Yep. I usually only use switches and outlets that have the screw AND a plate. The wire goes under the plate, the screw tamps it down. Seems like a pretty bombproof method.

    I hate the backstab method. First, I don't trust them to hold and second, when I go to replace a switch that has been back stabbed, I can never get the wire out of the backstab hole without ripping apart the entire switch or outlet (which I guess proves me wrong that the backstabs don't hold). And, often, there is limited space between the hole in the wall and not enough space to get a pick or something in there to release the backstab.

    Vise grips and lots of cursing usually allow me to peel apart the switch or outlet and remove the backstabbed wire(s).
     
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Quickest, but how much more time to just by the switch in the receptacle?
     
  20. Doug McC

    Doug McC Active Member

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    For future reference: there is usually a small slot near where the wire is inserted that when pressed will release the wire. (Even though I can’t spot it in your picture).