Honda Accord Hybrid: 50 MPG City - clone Toyota

Today = 13th Anniversary driving a hybrid

Hybrid = everyday vehicle that's clean & efficient

.

 

Do you think the honda is not clean and efficient. I am honestly asking what its missing from your definition?

 

I thought your question of "what does hybrid mean to you?" was just a reference to the my impression of market offerings as a whole now. Apparently not.

 

I'm not trying to pick on you. I thought you were saying this new accord hybrid was not as full a hybrid as a psd hybrid like the camry. I don't think I am missing anything from the definition, but certainly could be.

GM two mode hybrids also are full hybrids to me. Their non-downsized engines and expensive hybrid premium are what makes them not as "good" of hybrids IMHO, but they certainly fit my definition, but perhaps not yours.

 

Isn't a 7-speed transmission in contradiction to an eCVT? I know Accord Hybrid has an eCVT but have heard nothing about a 7 speed transmission.

 

Not fishy because the 47/46 is MPG after plug-in charge all gone (cs) mode. Accord Plugin heavier than Hybrid so naturally will get a bit less MPGs.

 

I answered that in a post a few down from that one.

Honda actually has 3(or 2.5) hybrid systems coming out.

The new Fit hybrid has the first. It is the closest to a direct successor to IMA in that it has one motor. It uses clutches like Hyundai's system to isolate the ICE and motor from each other for improved efficiency. These hybrid systems still need a traditional transmission. The double clutch is going here.

Then there is an AWD system for the Acuras. Honda is calling it a seperate system, but it appears to be the above with a larger battery and two motors on the rear axle.

Then there is the two motor, full hybrid system used in the Accord hybrids. This is just the eCVT.

 

7 speed means 7 virtual speeds, software will lock the ratio. Honda did this in the insight.

Two of the "feel" problems of cvts are rubber banding and slipping, where the accelerator is pressed but the noise out of the motor is out of phase and acceleration is delayed. These virtual gears help remove these "feel" issues.

virtual speeds may reduce real world mpg. Drivers may be encouraged to reduce power from the drone of a slipping cvt. The question is should the car or the driver decide power settings? A hyper miler might be able to use virtual gears to have more control of the ice and hence increase fuel economy.

 

If the Accord has an EPA-backed rating of 50 MPG city, then it's even biting the heels of the Insight. Honda hybrids capitalize on a lower cost and the Accord hybrid will probably ride similarly to the smooth conventional '14 Accord as a Camry hybrid rides smoothly like a conventional Camry. Honda would be foolish to not offer some reassuring warranty on the Accord hybrid, and they probably realize why the last Accord hybrid was a slow seller -- the price wasn't right for the uninspiring mileage it returned. If this conventional mid-size sedan gets 50 MPG city for a reasonable price, it WILL eat away Camry hybrid sales because the average consumer doesn't think 100,000 miles into the future when gas is $4 and the Accord hybrid gets 7 more MPG in the city, and Honda will probably make commercials emphasizing the difference.

 

if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump thier booty.

 

I hope the Accord Hybrid is successful, which means Toyota has to UP their game.

I was hoping Ford was successful, but I guess that was more smoke and magic than science.

 

Ford is successful, they have sold over 55,000 fusion and c-max hybrids and energis with there new 2L ice+lithium psd system year to date (January-August) versus 7,168 during the same period in 2012. They are going to expend these offerings in europe.

Now if you are talking about mpg claims, absolutely that was sleazy on the c-max. The fusion doesn't appear to get epa ratings in the real world. That doesn't mean these are bad cars. The Camry hybrid was also much improved, and although it gets closer to epa ratings in the real world, it appears to get slightly worse mpg than the fusion hybrid.

I really don't expect the accord hybrid to get 47 mpg combined in the real world, but what are we really talking about? As Car and Driver said on the fusion hybrid, they didn't get close to epa the way they drove it, but got much better fuel economy in it than the regular fusion (c&d and CR got 1 more mpg in the fusion hybrid versus the camry hybrid, it appears camry does better at higher speeds, fusion in the city). YMMV

47 versus 40 mpg over 150,000 miles is 560 gallons. 40 versus 30 is 1500 gallons during the same mileage, and we should expect the accord hybrid to beat the non-hybrid accord by at least that measure. That will add another good choice in the midsized sedan market.

 

Yes, I am talking about mpg numbers. Fortunately, most Americans cannot do finances, so those mpg numbers will have major impact on marketing, just ask Ford. And if the mpg is real, from small samples of the HAPI, those numbers look promising. With the upping EPA mpg number(s), it looks like those numbers are even better than Honda thought.

I am hoping that the real mpg numbers will promote sales on their accord hybrid, assuming price is not out of the Camry hybrid range. Only then would Toyota respond and anti-up with new technologies.

Competition drives quicker innovation. And Toyota has not have any in the last 10 years with hybrids.

 

hello? earth to dipper: 2010 was a major innovation for prius. 2012 was a major innovation for hycam. prius c and v are major innovations. toyota has not been resting on there laurels. they have however, made hay while the sun shines. and i'm sure they will forgo some of that hay if and when they have serious competition.

 

With the new 4th generation HSD system coming in 2015 for the Prius. Also the arrival of the Corolla Hybrid in 2014. I would look for Camry to get the newer Prius HSD design, which should improve the mpg numbers. It would be interesting to see the mini van Toyota brought to their world tour to America for sale.

The Estima may not be peppy, however soccer moms would rejoice at 47mpg.

Toyota showcases its global hybrid family - Chicago Tribune

 

No Corolla Hybrid for US in 2014 model year, instead there is the 2014 Toyota Corolla LE Eco with 35 mpg combined.

 

Not so fast. Honda hybrids pretty much sell like crap these days: 500 ish Civic Hybrids / month here, 400 some for Insight II (the big Prius killer, remember) and CR-Z. Word is 2006 -2009 Civic Hybrid had Very high battery failure rates, and replacement batteries booted new 'software' into the car and apparently leaving it with something a tick or two over 30 MPGs combined.

Accord Hybrid huh? 196 total HP. 3,500 lbs curb weight. 0 to 60 in like, 7.5 seconds. what is Cd, .29?

Apparently this thing is going to get tagged with 50/45/47 MPG. Didn't Fusion Hybrid show us something? They outfoxed EPA ratings which helps their CAFE ratings.

I'm not taking the bait. I don't think Accord Hybrid will get 47 combined. I'll wager 42 MPG combined real world.

 

Nah, Toyota Motor Corp. only has about 69% market share in US for hybrids.

 

So far I have not seen any great new engineering advance with the new solutions. The last one I had actual hope in was Hyundai Sonata Hybrid with their insulated engine. That made sense to retain heat, however it did not pan out in the MPG. While maybe good for getting back to ICE mode quickly, it proved not to be the big hit on MPG.

The next advancement will need to be finding another way to heat and cool the car without affecting the MPG. (solar boost - I had hopes but Prius crushed that hope). The other would need to be how to make the car squeeze even more MPG out of the engine. (possibly fuel cells) Reducing weight, resistance and tire advancement have pretty much plateaued. Only small advances seem to be happening with these technologies.

I embrace the other car companies attempts. Competition, despite how small shows there is need to keep developing the technology. Plus, more people driving hybrids will result in more people understanding my hypermiling, coasting and driving a couple mph under the speed limit in low traffic times.