Honda starts selling cheap hybrid with Insight (in Japan), underpricing rival Toyota's Prius

Try hitting the gas just once, you might get a shock.

 

I have -- once I think, when the car was fairly new. No shock . I do try to know the performance limits of the car -- specially the tyres.

Not even a mild jolt, to be honest. But then my adrenaline rushes are not served by street cars, no matter how 'fast' they are. Weaving around cactii on a bicycle -- That is fear. Err, I mean excitement.

 

The Prius is slow compared to typical automobiles in the US. A 0-60 time above 10 seconds is fine for a car. Cars take us from point A-B, carry our stuff, and keep us warm and dry when it rains.

Speed and acceleration are relative. Once one has ridden motorcycles that hit 80 mph in first gear all cars are slow. You have a bike so you know.

 

i bet taxing is different in Japan, as well as equipment, so no use in converting the price...

 

The Japanese Honda website says 1.8 million yen as the before-tax price. On the road though, you're looking at I guess 2.1 million once the consumption tax, three years of the weight tax, and all the other stuff get added on. I was expecting the base model to come with trashy alloys and other corners cut to get more money in as options, but it looks fine as is.

In Japan, Honda are using the tag line "the hybrid for everyone" and then hitting people with the price. "We're cheaper than the Prius!" basically. The ads are cartoon style and feature Peanuts characters. The Japanese website also deliberately states that the car is classified as a "5 number", making it a compact car (for Japan). I guess this is to appeal to people who would buy a Fit/Vitz/Swift/Cube and actually want a small car because they are easier to get around Japan's narrow streets. The Prius is a "3 number", the standard classification. Lots of 5 number cars like the ones I mentioned are aimed at young people, so its probably a plus for the Insight. It also looks like the hybrid display is separate from the audio/sat nav, which means people can buy an aftermarket solution without being locked into an overpriced and underfeatured maker device as with the current Prius.

Toyota have tried getting di Caprio on board to appeal to younger people, but most Prius drivers in Japan tend to be older. It'll be good if Honda can crack that market. Since the current Prius is being stripped down and has a size and fuel economy advantage, I doubt the Insight will get many sales as company cars though.

 

One interesting point is that Honda does not emphasize the precise fuel economy ratings of the Insight II in their Japanese ads. The whole line is "a hybrid for 1,890,000 yen". The customer is meant to associate Prius-like fuel economy with the mere mention of the word "hybrid".

And to be fair, the lower purchase price will make more difference to the average driver than than the somewhat worse fuel economy.

While waiting at my local Toyota dealer in Yokohama the other day, there was an article comparing the Prius vs. the new Insight on every table of the dealership, so clearly Toyota is taking the competition seriously.

The article that Toyota was presenting to its customers gave the Prius a 15% advantage on fuel economy, which alone does not make up for the lower purchase price.

At say 20 km/l real life fuel economy and 10,000 km/year (most Japanese do low annual mileage) and a current price of 107 yen per litre regular unleaded ($4.20 per US gallon), that 15% is a mere 8000 yen per year. At current prices the extra fuel cost only eats up 1/5 of the sticker price advantage of the Insight over the next ten years. Even if fuel prices averaged of 267 yen per litre (2.5 times the current level, $10.50/gallon) over the next 10 years the differenece would only erode half the sticker price saving.

What you're paying for with the Prius is not just a more fuel efficient car, but also a more spacious one with a bigger engine. There is significant overlap between potential buyers of these two fine cars, but Honda is hoping to grow the market to new segments that the Prius has not been reaching and that growth is a good thing.

I can confirm the "5 number" slogan mentioned above. A flyer in the weekend paper used the slogan "5-namba haibrido kah wo minna no mainichi e", which means "a 5-number car for everybody, every day". Japanese license plates classify cars by size. Numbers starting with 4 are microcars below 660cc and 3 metres in length, numbers starting with 5 are the majority and numbers starting with 3 are large(ish) cars with engines above 2 litres or exceeding a certain weight or size.

Honda also uses the slogan "Honda Green Machine 001".

About the lower sticker price of the car in Japan than in the US, that is an artifact of the recent fall of the dollar vs. the yen. The dollar is now about 20% lower than it was a year ago. Car prices do not always match current exchange rates but follow more long term trends.

 

So the "New iQ1.33" has no presence in Japan:

Engine 1.33 Dual VVT-i
Engine code 1NR-FE
Type 4-cylinder, in-line type
Fuel type Premium (95 RON)
Valve mechanism 16-valve DOHC, chain drive with dual VVT-i
Displacement 1329
Bore x stroke (mm) 72.5 x 80.5
Compression ratio 1) 11.5
Max. power (DIN hp) KW /rpm (99)73/6000
Max. torque (Nm/rpm) 125/4400
Emissions level EURO IV
Transmission
Type Front wheel drive
Engine 1.33-litre Dual VVT-i
Operation type 6-speed M/T Multidrive
Gear ratios 1st 3.538 2.386 - 0.426
2nd 1.913 1.913
3rd 1.310 1.310
4th 1.029 1.029
5th 0.875 0.875
6th 0.743 0.743
Reverse 3.333 2.505
Differential gear ratio 3.736 5.403

Performance
Transmission 6-speed
Manuel Transmission
Multidrive
Max. Speed
(km/h)
170 170
Fuel
consumption
Transmission 6-speed
Manuel Transmission
Multidrive
Combined
(l/100km)
4.8 5.1
CO2 emissions
Transmission 6-speed
Manuel Transmission
Multidrive
Combined (g/km) 113 120
​

Perhaps this is the Honda Big-Insight challenger.

Bob Wilson

 

We've had direct mail from two Japanese Toyota dealers in the last ten days offering a 2009 Prius at 260,000 yen below retail. Obviously that is just the starting point dealers are conceding for negotiation. Anecodal evidence online in Japanese suggests you could get 330,000 to 400,000 yen off a loaded Prius last year. I would imagine its close to the top of that range now, perhaps even for a car without lots of accessories.

According to Nikkei Business, 24% of Insight buyers are in their 60s and 30% are in their 50s. Sales with racer types are good too though, with double the expected orders for the "Mugen" bodywork. The article suggests such demographics are essentially "two seater usage". Supposedly half the cars are being bought on financing with nothing down, 34000 yen a month for three years, and then a final payment of 900,000. The article suggested this was favorable terms, specifically leaving half the payment to three years into the future, but the direct mail we got from Toyota offered a similar deal on the Prius. The monthly payment on the Prius is actually much lower, but there are large payments timed to coincide when Japanese workers get their twice a year bonuses.

For car sales in Japan, there are two developments that could shake things up a bit. First is whether the goverment comes through with the shift of the car tax calculation from engine size to CO2 output. As I have mentioned before, the system currently favours the 660 kei cars. One in three new cars in Japan is 660cc as a result. The second development is the drastic reduction in highway tolls that will start later this month. Japanese highways have hitherto been really expensive to use. 200km one way costs around 5000 yen. This will fall to 1000 yen at the weekend as part of the economic stimulus plan. Anyone who thinks the Prius gets blown around at high speed should try driving a 660cc car with a higher side profile at 100km/h or more. If highway driving becomes cheaper and car tax for hybrids falls, I can see Japanese people deserting kei cars for hybrids.

 

Comparing the 2010 Insight to the 2010 Prius is like comparing a Yaris to the Camry. The Insight is closer to Yaris in size, especially the passenger volume.

2009 Yaris
Passenger: 84.6
Cargo: 9.32
Total: 93.92 Cubic Ft.

2010 Insight
Passenger: 85
Cargo: 15.9
Total: 100.9 Cubic Ft.

2009 Camry / Hybrid
Passenger: 101.4
Cargo: 14.5 / 10.6
Total: 115.9 / 112 Cubic Ft.

2010 Prius
Passenger: 93.7
Cargo: 21.6
Total: 115.3 Cubic Ft.

 

SanZan,

Thanks for the info on what's going on in Japan. It is interesting and I think it is right to shift from engine size to CO2 emission. 1.8L Prius is more fuel efficient than the 1.3L Insight. It would only be fair to give incentive based on the emission.

 

Don't hatchbacks and wagons count the volume between the cargo cover and ceiling as cargo space? My Subaru wagon doesn't really have any more back floor space than Prius2G, yet with it's rectangular back, is rated for 30-something ft^3 of cargo volume.

 

The EPA uses total volume, floor to ceiling, for their interior volume numbers. Magazines typically just pull their numbers from the manufactures press release. I'm not sure how manufacturers measure their interior volume but it is usually different than the EPA number.

 

Insight sighted

Yesterday (Sunday) I was out driving (Yokohama, Tokyo and Kawasaki) and saw a total of three Honda Insight cars.

Two of them were parked on a dealer forecourt while the other was on a test drive in the streets. These were the first cars I'd seen since the launch.

One of my neighbours still owns one of the original first generation (two seater) Insights, the other hybrid car in our street.

 

Re: Insight sighted

What is the impression of the Honda Civic Hybrid versus the Honda Big-Insight?

Bob Wilson

 

Honda say 15,000 Insights were ordered in February but only 4900 were delivered. That was still more than the number of Priuses sold.

The original Insight in metallic green is well cool.

 

New data says that Honda sold 18,000 Insights in Japan in February. They originally estimated selling 5,000 units per month in Japan for the first year.

Honda's hybrid Insight sells briskly Japan - International Herald Tribune