How is the Prime in the snow?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by White 17, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. civicdriver06

    civicdriver06 Active Member

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    Hopefully as good as it's hybrid only brother !


     
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  2. White 17

    White 17 Junior Member

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    I was looking at the driver side windshield wiper, it is huge. Unusual design too. Any reports on how it does in snow and ice?

    I does look like it takes refills though, that is good.
     
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Take a look at the end of the video. It's interesting that the TRAC allowed the wheel in the soft snow bank to spin while the wheel on the ploughed section didn't move at all.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Isn't easier to turn off now?
    If not, finding the way to do so isn't a hard find.
     
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Yes it's just a button. What I meant was the way TRAC divvied up the power. I thought it would send power to the wheel that was on the ground, not the one in the snow bank.
     
  6. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    The only way it could do that is with friction braking. A regular differential will send equal torque to the two wheels. This means if either wheel has less traction, it will spin while the one with more traction doesn't spin.

    Traction control is probably just controlling delivered power, not wheel brakes. Stability control does, but I didn't think traction control would engage the brakes.
     
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Well it looks like it clamped down on the driver's side wheel. Yeah there's no limited slip diff so it's definitely friction braking.

    So again, I'm just curious about the logic, not how it works.

    Why is it more advantageous to send power to the passenger wheel that's in the snow bank than the driver's side wheel that's on the driveway, clear of snow.
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The wheel on the slippery surface needs to start spinning faster than the other for the system to know it is slipping. Then it reduces engine power, and might apply the brake to that wheel. If the driver isn't easing off the pedal, that wheel will start to spin again after its speed matches the other one and the system stops intervening. At lower speeds the power reduction can be enough to lose momentum, and have the car come to a stop. I've found letting the wheels spin can net more headway in snow. At least that is lower cost than installing a limited slip differential. That or a locking one is what you really want in poor traction situations.

    I do not miss the TRAC on my gen2. A left turn from a stop under heavish acceleration was enough to trigger it. Then there was sudden power loss with traffic possibly heading at my rear.

    Primer on ABS, ESC, and TRAC with some videos: This Is How ABS, ESC, And Traction Control Work
     
  9. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    First real snow accumulation of the season. Even though I still have stock Dunlop Enasave AS tires on my Prime, it drives surprisingly well on wet slushy surface. I may make it through the winter without purchasing winter tires. Yap, you do need to keep eyes on the front TOYOTA emblem. If you don't keep the snow off of it, Pre Collision braking system will not work. ;)

    IMG_20171212_162110.jpg
     
  10. ct89

    ct89 Active Member

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    In my neck of NewEngland, the snow arrived before I managed to do the winter tire swap. The car was slipping a good bit more than I was comfortable with... This confirmed to me that I personally would not recommend sticking with the Dunlops for the season. I'm used to having snow tires on so it shouldn't come as a surprise I found the lack of snows bothersome.

    Later that day I did the swap. New X-Ice3 tires had already been mounted on my winter rims and were just waiting for me to get around to putting them on the car. Very noticeable difference. I am now very happy with the handling of the prime in snow.

    Nothing scientific, no braking distance measurements (sorry)...But the car behaves very well now.
    Haven't had them on enough to judge noise or impact on EV/HV performance yet. Compared to the Altimax snows I had on my Gen3 last year, these are definitely quieter. Some of that is likely Gen3 vs. Prime in addition to the tire differences. Not fair to judge traction between old and new and I it's been too long to form any opinion on how these differ from when the Gen3 had new tread.
     
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  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Amen.

    IIRC @Salamander_King is in a State with annual inspections, which will fail him with a tpms light, and his inspection date is mid-winter. This is putting a lot of owners in a quandary. :mad:
     
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  12. ct89

    ct89 Active Member

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    Here's a summary of TPMS requirements for about a third of the states
    Tire Tech Information - State TPMS Regulations

    Something went wrong for me this swap. I added sensors to the tires and loaded them in to the ATEQ tool and into the car.
    All went smoothly but for some reason the prime TPMS lite has not gone out. There is an initialization sequence I tried in the manual that didn't help as well.

    My guess is one of the sensors went bad or I entered the code wrong. Only thought around debugging would be to create a config in the ATEQ tool with one tire replaced at a time and see if those program OK...OR, finding a tire shop to scan the new tires...Sigh...
     
    #52 ct89, Dec 13, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Well, actually when I had cracked front windshield swapped in Aug, it had to have a new inspection sticker on it. So, I no longer have to take my car for inspection during winter month. I was contemplating on getting new set of rims and tires for my PRIME, but the total cost of ~$1000 for set of rims and tires and TPMS is what I get quoted from most places. I thought I can get better deal after Thanksgiving, but I could not find a bargain. Then it snowed. If it was just price of tires, then I would definitely use snow tires. But, on top of initial investment on rims and TPMS, twice a year tire mounting and TPMS resetting at shop will cost too. If stock tires are capable of handling most of normal winter road condition where I live, that is a compromise I can live with. BTW, purely out of curiosity, I asked a Toyota dealer for an estimate to put winter tires on different set of rims on my PRIME. Since TOYOTA doesn't sell steel rims for PRIME, they quoted me with set of 4 OEM alloy wheels with set of OEM TPMS and new tires for whooping $2500.:LOL:

    Looking at Tirerack information @ct89 provided above, I am supposed to be in a state where TPMS does not have to be functional in order to pass the inspection. However, that really depends on where you take your car for inspection IMHO. The law may not requires it, but many shops will automatically fail the inspection if the dashboard warning light is on. On top of that, unless you do tire swaps yourself, many tire shops will refuse to install tires on rims without functional TPMS for liability reason.

    Just noticed that Tirerack info contains Hawaii as one of state that does not require TPMS to be functional in order to pass the inspection. But but but...DO THEY REALLY NEED WINTER TIRES?(y)
     
    #53 Salamander_King, Dec 13, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Yeah depends on the dealership. The dealership we bought the car through were adamant: the Prius is a "flagship" vehicle, you've got to use alloy rims, no steel rims will work. Another dealership response: "we're not sure, but think these Corolla rims will work". $70 apiece, vs $350+ for the OEM alloy rims, and thanks-but-no-thanks for the TPMS sensors.
     
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  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    It's really starting to worry me. I've driven in freezing rain with the Gen 3 and never got the "Clean Sensor" light (I was half expecting it actually but was more concerned with getting home safely before the rain really iced up the roads). When I got home, there was ice and some slush on the TOYOTA emblem.

    The Gen 4/Prime system seems to be more sensitive (between the radar unit and the ICS sensors... man.. what exactly works when the car isn't driven in Californian weather?)
     
  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    The strange thing was that snow was already on the hood and presumably on the emblem when I left work. It had stopped snowing already when I started driving, so there would have been no more new accumulation. Yet, the warning light did not come on until after I drove over 20 miles. Maybe some splash of mud from road caused it? This was what it looked like right before I got out and cleaned emblem.

    IMG_20171212_162153.jpg
     
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  17. 4rpr15

    4rpr15 Senior Member

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    I took the Enasave tires off yesterday and my local tire shop installed the Michelin X-Ice XI3's and I honestly I am SO glad that I did it. It's truly night and day. I have full control now while driving in the snow vs feeling 50/50.
     
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  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    What are you doing come spring?
     
  19. 4rpr15

    4rpr15 Senior Member

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    Putting new Michelin Premier A/S’s on along with new wheels.
     
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  20. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    To be honest, I'm not sure the pre-collision system would work great in a snowy/icy situation anyway? That seems a bit scary to me. I wonder if there are any firsthand accounts of it getting triggered in icy conditions?
     
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