Featured How long before there are Camry and Avalon Primes?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Sal43, Aug 9, 2021.

  1. Sal43

    Sal43 Member

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    I figure they're waiting till battery technology and miniaturization are good enough to stick 15 to 20 KW/HR batteries under the back seat.
     
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They'll be waiting awhile then. Solid state batteries could double the energy density, and get you a battery half the size of current ones. Yet the 8.8kWh pack in the Prius Prime is still large, and the space under the seat small. The hybrid Li-ion battery is about 1kWh, and smaller than the NiMH. Solid state means the pack can be in the 2 to 3 kWh range. Maybe 4 kWh is possible, but that is still less than the PiP's capacity.

    Take out the spare tire, and a Prius Prime sized pack could go under the trunk floor without too much loss of cargo space. The hold up will be cost at that point. Solid state batteries are going to be more expensive initially.
     
  3. Colorado Boo

    Colorado Boo Member

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    I'm anxious to see the EV's from Lexus coming out. I don't know if it's next year or the following but should be very interesting, as well as the hydrogen engines and we can't forget the next Gen of the Tundra with the hybrid option and the V-6 Twin Turbo engine. (Sad Toyota is getting rid of the 5.7L V-8's, though...they are bullet-proof...there's a hot demand right now for 2021 Tundra's just because people want that 5.7)
     
  4. Richard2005

    Richard2005 Member

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    Yes to make a PHEV for a non SUV, you need to remove the spare. If there is a subsidy then it should not be much more than a hybrid.
     
    #4 Richard2005, Aug 9, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I was talking about the battery cost. Being new, with little to no production capacity, solid state batteries will be expensive; much more than current Li-ion. They may be cheaper when production levels reach those of Li-ion, but market will have changed by then. There will be more charging available for BEVs on trips.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    we've been waiting over 10 years for a plug in camry.

    ford did it years ago, albeit with a small trunk.

    i just don't think toyota sees the investment payoff, and they're not in it for the environment.

    heck, they didn't even invest in a redesigned prius, they just crammed a uge battery in and called it a day
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Are unicorns powered by solid state batteries?

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. royrose

    royrose Senior Member

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    How long before there are Camry and Avalon Primes?

    For sure there will be no Avalon Prime. Toyota has announced that 2002 will be the last year for Avalon (Announced by a Toyota spokesman, quoted on many internet sites.)
     
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  9. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I thought they licensed their powertrain technology to Ford... so in a way they did make a plug-in Camry, it just had one of the other blue ovals on the front.

    I liked those pluggy Fusions a lot, two of my best friends had them.

    Either way I reckon the market for pluggy family sedans would have suddenly felt crowded with both a Camry and a Fusion available. Doesn't mean there won't be room later though.
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Ford developed their own hybrid. They made a cross licensing deal for 10% of Toyota's hybrid patents so both could avoid going to court. IIRC, Toyota got access to Ford diesel and emission control patents.
     
  11. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Ah, okay so it was to dodge lawsuits rather than swap product.

    With @royrose's post above I think I'm officially car-cursed or something. If the Avalon disappears for 2022, every single car I had on my "list of interest" will have been discontinued or withdrawn from the US market.

    If I like your car, it's bad news.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    fusion plug in is history
     
  13. Richard2005

    Richard2005 Member

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    Agreed .. we don't know when solid state will be available at an affordable price and Toyota is not likely to use unless they can get the cost down. The the foreseeable future, any Prime will be Lo-Ion and even then I can't see other versions at those stage because they can't even get the RAV4 Prime in reasonable volumes. Maybe in 2-3 years ?
     
  14. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    right now, Toyota is struggling just to get enough battery contracts to provide for China's electric car market. Then putting them in the Prius Prime, and RAV4 Prime? Couple that with not enough chips to make RAV4 Prime anyway? Yeah it maybe a long row to hoe.
    Killing off Avalon? after killing off Prius v, and Prius C ? .... What next ... even regular Prius sales are sagging. But isn't there someone on the forum here often reminding everyone how important it is to,
    "know your audience" ?
    that phrase sure got tossed out a lot once chevy axed the Volt in the US market.

    Bottom line - markets are fickled - owners are fickled - fuel prices too - as are gub'ment subsidies.
    .
     
    #14 hill, Aug 12, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
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  15. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    The Avalon and the Avalon hybrid are going away, but you can still get one. They tend towards older buyers, some of whom don't drive that much. I've been looking around for a 2019 Avalon Touring because it had an active suspension, and I want to see what that is like. I keep finding them with under 30k miles on them, it's just that I don't want to go to New Jersey or Texas or something to test drive a car.

    As for a hybrid Camry Prime, if Toyota came out with one, they'd start cannibalizing sales from the Prime, and accounting wouldn't like that....
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's all about suv's these days.
     
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