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How long should battery drain take?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by StephenJ, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. StephenJ

    StephenJ Member

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    Okay, I got this 09 several days ago. I've never spent much time in another Prius so have no comparison regarding battery strength. Sometimes I'm wondering if it's strong or weak.

    If a strong healthy battery is in the green (at the very top or one bar from the top) and you park but with the a/c going, how long should it take to drain down to purple where the ICE kicks on? I figured this would help me have a pretty decent comparison that doesn't have to take into account drivers, terrain, etc.


    Thanks!
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    there are a number of influencing factors, but a few minutes is probably an average.
     
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  3. StephenJ

    StephenJ Member

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    Okay so it dropping from green to purple during a restaurant drive thru (didn't time it, but probably a few minutes) seems to be about right. It made me a bit uneasy for it to drop that much going through a drive thru

    I think tomorrow I'm going to actually time it and see exactly how long it takes to go from green to engine kicking on. If anyone with a real healthy battery wants to do the same, that would be great!

    Just want to put away any doubts. To me, buying a used car that I'm not all that familiar with that has over 100k is a bit nerve racking so I just want to get a good feel for the battery health.

    Thanks!
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    did you have the a/c on?
     
  5. StephenJ

    StephenJ Member

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    Yes, a/c was running and maybe radio as well.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    a/c is what chews up the battery, and of course, temp and humidity make it difficult for owners to compare.
    whatever you do, don't go through a carwash that makes you put it in neutral.
     
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  7. StephenJ

    StephenJ Member

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    Ohhh I'm glad you said that because it hasn't even crossed my mind! My daughter was planning on doing a car wash like that on a regular basis. I actually JUST read 5 minutes ago that they don't charge in Neutral. That seems somewhat odd that it won't charge in neutral but will while in park.

    Thanks for the excellent advice!
     
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  8. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    You can run it through a "pull through" carwash that requires you to put it in neutral, as long as you have 6 - 7 bars and you turn off the A/C. A/C on a hot day is the big drain on the battery.

    For piece of mind, you can get your car battery full by "force charging* and then turn all accessories, including the A/C. off. Then sit in the car with a timer running and time how long it takes to get to the 2nd bar (1st purple bar) when the ICE kicks in. A reasonably healthy HV battery (and 12 V battery) will go for quite some time. NB, the car is in READY for this complete test.


    * Force Charge: Make Car READY; Place Foot Park Brake on securely; Place Left foot on brake pedal and press firmly; Place in 'D'; Press accelerator down fully; When HV Battery icon lights the 8th Bar, continue charging until the charge flow line will start alternating in/out (takes longer than you would think). HV battery is now fully charged *(to 80%). Stop charging and place in 'P'. (Don't forget to release foot park brake, if you're not in the habit of using it!)
     
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  9. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    I am going to simplify, the Prime does have a sprag clutch, but not much, it really is simple mechanically.

    Your Prius is really always in D. It is a single speed transmission with no clutch.
    To emulate R, the electric motor called M/G2 rotates backward. The speed of the car is ALWAYS directly proportional to M/G2 speed, so if M/G2 is going backwards, so is the car.
    To emulate P, a pawl drops into the gears, preventing M/G2 from moving.
    To achieve B, the computers start rotating the engine without giving it gas, so it acts as an air pump, wasting energy. Since the goal of braking is to get rid of energy, this is normal. (In D more kinetic energy is dissipated by charging the battery)
    To emulate N, no electricity is allowed in or out of M/G2 and M/G1, so the engine has nothing to push against and no charging takes place. (the car is really in D, and if you coast, the motors do spin, but no electricity is getting in or out. This is why towing with the front wheels on the ground is bad)

    Both B and N are required by US law, as is the gear pattern. (except B, Toyota could put B where ever they wanted)
     
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  10. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    I just wish I could find theses mile long car washes everyone here uses. :p Mine takes about 45 secs (no kidding) to go through.
     
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  11. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    The one I use, the car remains stationary and the apparatus moves around it. Very Prius friendly.
     
  12. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Yeah, that's my plan B wash option which takes about 3 times as long but the pull-thru even as short as it is cleans better.
     
  13. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    To the OP: Here's an excerpt from a recent post of mine:

    "Condition of TractionBattery (maintained using HybridSystems Prolong Grid Charger): I was sitting in the car, which was in "READY" mode, and with the A/C on (well, it was 95+ degrees out, with dreadful humidity) and after about 10 minutes, I saw the SoC had reduced to about 40% (2 purple bars on the MFD :eek::eek:), so the ICE came on, which was to be expected.
    I later used the car to run an errand, and after about 10 mins, the SoC was back to 70%, and more driving this morning showed the Soc and MFD display to be working normally.
    Anyway, just FYI of anyone who might be interested…"

    …so, to answer your (OP) question, about 10 minutes! - hope this helps - Wil
     
  14. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    Well, some folk just expect the world to move around them! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:;)
     
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  15. StephenJ

    StephenJ Member

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    Okay, results are in. I stayed in D during charge and discharge...which means my headlights (HID's I believe) and brake lights were on during discharge (I didn't think about it until after I had already started so I just left them on). I also had the a/c on and set to the first setting to the right of Lo (as opposed to auto so it would just stay on the whole time).

    4:30 in it dropped to the 7th (green)
    9:00 in it dropped to the 6th (blue)
    12:00 in it dropped to the 5th (blue)
    12:30 in it dropped to the 4th (blue)
    13:00 in it dropped to the 3rd (blue)
    13:30 the ICE kicked on at 2nd bar (purple)

    It seems to start dropping fast once it gets to about the 5th bar. However, I think it just has something to do with scaling because in my initial test the 3rd bar only lasted 30 seconds. BUT when it got to the second bar, then the ICE kicked on and put it back up to the 3rd bar then turned off, the 3rd bar lasted for around 4 minutes before dropping back down to the 2nd bar then stayed on the 2nd bar for 2:30 where then the ICE kicks back on again. So this 3rd and 2nd bar lasted much longer than the first time around where it dropped from the top.

    Interesting. So does that seem to be holding up okay? One thing to note is that it seemed to charge very fast (just a couple minutes from 2 bars to top). Also, as the battery got closer to full the ICE would load up like it was bogging down....I suppose because as the battery gains charge it puts a lot more load on the ice
     
  16. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    That's because all bars aren't created equal. Rule of thumb, each one represents a different percentage. upload_2017-8-31_10-49-51.png
     
  17. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    On the face of it these timings indicate a HV battery in reasonably good shape, even considering the age.
    This is consistent, if you reference the graphic in post# 16 above, it shows why. When you graph the SoC (state of charge) under load, over time, you see that the line is shallower 80% to 60% and then steepens from 60% to 40%. So, that it is doing this is not unusual or "bad" as such. More important is overall time for the drop from 80% to 40%.
    Not quite sure I understand the process and where it fits in with the timing above. Are these additional data points after the above timings?
    Yup.
    This is the only thing that concerns me. I recently tested another Prius HV battery and it showed this as well. Until I do more of my own testing I will reserve comment as to whether it indicates anything or is good or bad. Suffice it to say, all other aspects of the HV battery I tested showed positive results, much like yours above. One thing to remember, thee charge is at around 60-70 Amps whereas the discharge (all things being equal) is around 5 Amps, so it is expected that the charge back up will be faster than the discharge.

    I would say, on balance, you can relax and now focus on driving this great piece of engineering.

    Footnote: The point of me asking you to do this test was to show you that your car will be ok for 5 -10 minutes in a carwash – with the conditions I mentioned in my first post (post# 8).
     
    #17 dolj, Aug 31, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
  18. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Thats a tired hybrid battery. My bought new 07 started doing the 2 blues to one purple bar at the drive through too at 100K miles. The battery was showing signs of rapid deterioration. You have not throw any trouble codes yet so you have a small window to improve the battery. I bought a Prolong Charger/Discharger and did a full discharge and charge and its been much much better for the last 4 months.
    It really wakes the battery up.

    hybridautomotive.com


    Even my wife said it does not go into purple bars anymore. Not sure how long it will last though...
    At the age of the car it is inevitable to have to replace the hybrid battery. It helps to keep it cool with really good tint and extend the rear package rack to keep direct sunlight off it and keep the cabin very cool as in don't drive around with the windows open.

    Its quite a roll of the dice though to buy a used G2 at its age. You can look at the cars history by going to toyota.com/owners and join the forum and enter your vin.
    It will show you every instance the car has seen a Toyota dealer. You may see why the car was sold.
    Sometimes thats good sometimes its very bad.
     
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