How many kilowatts for full charge?

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by MollyHU, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. ct89

    ct89 Active Member

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    Several of us have meters and have consistently measured just above 6KWh to fully recharge. This measurement is at the wall and takes into account inefficiencies. It is what the utility records as the consumption and charges against.

    For me, these measurements were done using an L2 charger. I cannot confirm but can believe that an L1 charger might have different losses so maybe that could explain how the member above got as high as 7.2KWh.
     
  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I have been using exclusively L1 EVSE that came with the car for last year. Will Kill-a-watt meter, the full charge range from 6.3-6.8kWh with average ~6.5kWh for me. I think this number is bit higher than most people reporting here using L2 charger, but consistent with some report from people using L1 charger. It is possible that reason I have higher number is due to the fact I use HV after depleting EV range before coming home to recharge. Small amount battery is used for EV run during HV.
     
  3. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    L1 isn't as efficient. So while the battery is still taking the same amount, more is coming from the wall as compared to a L2.
     
  4. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, that was my thought too. But some people using L1 have reported low 6kWh not so different from L2 for full charge while others (including myself) have been experiencing higher numbers. I don't know why.
     
  5. ct89

    ct89 Active Member

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    I believe there are variations in how depleted the battery is after switching to HV which likely account for some of the differences.
    I haven't found a good way to see what the post-EV level really is. With the old prius', you could count the bars on the display but I've seen vary little variation on the prime display so it's hard to quantify how much of the lower part of the battery bar is drained.

    Most of my measurements are in the 6.1 to 6.3 range but there are occasional 5.9 and 6.5 readings. I don't track every fill, that's just from randomly checking the meter after a charge so there could very well be greater variation than I have noticed.
     
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  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Agreed. For me, the difference between my L1 vs typical L2 full charge is less than 0.5kWh per charge. That is less than $20/year in cost of electricity for me. I thought about installing a L2 charge station, but with our current use, nightly 6 hours L1 charge is good enough and investing in L2 charge station is not worth the money for now.
     
  7. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

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    I stand corrected. ct89 is correct that the proof-of-the-pudding is in the metering. Moreover, my comment that the "EVSE charger is not 100% efficient" is misleading. The EVSE is just a contactor which connects the Prime's internal charging circuit to the 240-volt or 120-volt house wiring. Any inefficiencies would occur in the Prime's internal charging circuitry and in the traction battery itself.

    A number of Prime owners have installed metering devices similar to this:

    kwh-metering.jpg

    The 6 to 6.5 kWh or so from nominal fully discharge to nominal full charge appears to be typical of what's being measured. Keep in mind that the internal circuitry of the Prime never allows the traction battery to become totally depleted. The Prime display will show zero charge remaining and the Prime's ICE will run, but there is still some necessary minimum charge level being maintained.

    I find the most meaningful statistic not to be the cost-to-charge, but the total energy cost divided by the distance traveled. The total energy cost is the sum of the number of kWh provided by my home EVSE times the electric company's price per kWH plus the cost of gasoline to keep the tank full plus any monetary costs incurred at ChargePoint locations away from home. I ignore any kWh at ChargePoint and other locations which provide free charging.

    From a practical standpoint, this seems to be a more useful measure than trying to figure out kWh per charging cycle. And, yes, I can see how other measurements of cost per electric mile vs. cost per gasoline mile might be intriguing. For those with scan tools which allow monitoring some of the Prime's internal statistics, it might be interesting to calculate how many kWh flow from the traction battery into the electric motor, compared with the number of kWh necessary to recharge the battery.
     
  8. David3433

    David3433 Junior Member

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    I know that this question was originally posted a year ago, but I wanted to briefly chime in with some additional information.

    The state of Vermont (from where the OP hails) gets almost all of its electricity from renewable resources (I attempted to post link from the U.S. Energy Information Administration, but was unable to do so) . If the OP's goal is to charge their car solely from renewable electricity, this goal is already being met.
     
  9. VTBIGDOG

    VTBIGDOG Active Member

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    Vermont purchases a ton of electricity from Hydro-Quebec. Granted this electricity is generated from dams, it's hardly renewable if we have to pay for it as opposed to generating it ourselves.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  10. cleverchimp

    cleverchimp Junior Member

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    Where can I get a meter like that?
     
  11. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

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    These kind of meters are available from a number of on-line sources. There are different styles and form factors. Some have color LCD or LED displays. You could start by browsing eBay:


    If you prefer dealing with a U.S. distributor for faster shipping (even though the meter likely will still be made in China), I recommend Marlin P. Jones & Associates in Florida. They list two such meters in their catalog:


    Keep in mind that this is just the meter. You will need to construct an appropriate housing for it and you will need to safely connect it to your EVSE supply circuit.

    For more details, see: Prime electric bill cost to operate | Page 8 | PriusChat

    To repeat what I said in my earlier post:

    This is not a D.I.Y. project for someone with no electrical knowledge or skills.

    Working with electric wiring always carries the risk of serious injury or even death! Improper electrical work also can create a fire hazard and place users at risk of shock or electrocution!

    You would be well advised to get assistance from someone with basic electrical knowledge and skills. And be aware that this may or may not conform to your local code standards in your location. It's always best to employ a qualified professional.


     
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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  13. cleverchimp

    cleverchimp Junior Member

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    Thanks, I'm installing 30 AMP circuit myself and plan to mount Clipper Creek HCS-30. The connections going to be on outdoor 2 gang box however looks like all these meant for indoor.
    Yeah, thinking about that mechanical one since it will be most likely rated outdoor.
     
  14. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

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    Unless you mount them inside a weatherproof housing or enclosure, the meters I cited are not appropriate for outdoor use.

    Of course, you could mount them indoors at the breaker panel or somewhere indoors along the run from the panel to your EVSE.

    The utility-style watt-hour meters are weatherproof but must be mounted on meter base designed for outdoor use. They will log total power used in kilowatt-hours (kWh) but not show you things like line voltage (volts), instantaneous current (amps), and connected power (watts) if you care about that data.
     
  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    It took 7.003 kWh, 2 hr 24 min, and $1.75 to charge my new 2020 Prius Prime XLE at a Level 2 ChargePoint station for the first time.
     
    #35 Gokhan, Sep 8, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    wow, that seems like a lot of electrons. will be interesting to see how many ev miles you get.

    all the best!(y)
     
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  17. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Not inconceivable. If he was deep into the HV only part of his charge when he plugged in, that would raise the amount needed. Plus, I think the charger is including the power used by the car's cooling fans and the various heat losses. That can easily add up to a couple hundred Wh. I've had some at home that were very close to 7kWh in total.
     
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  18. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    Thank you! :)
     
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  19. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Active Member

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    Realize the novelty of using charging station. As you may know, it would of been cheaper to use your ICE for the $1.75 - assuming gas is less than 3bucks/gal where you're at.
    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  20. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    About $3.30 in LA today, so almost a wash.
     
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