How many prime owners have invested in a L2 Charging station at home?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by coach81, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It probably is still just cheap plastic, but the numbers of Primes out there and being made means Toyota can charge more for it.
     
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  2. mveras1972

    mveras1972 Member

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    L1 uses up to 12A and L2 up to 16A. Given that the charging time is reduced by less than half on L2 by simply increasing to 16A, I have to guess it is cheaper to charge on L2 than on L1. It’s not just an advantage of less charging time, it’s also your electric bill savings.


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  3. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    I'm not following your math here. With double the voltage and the same current, the charge time should be about half. If the current is also increased while the voltage is doubled, that would result in a charge time less than half the time at the lower voltage and current.

    If the energy from the wall is the same, how would this make it cheaper? Or are you saying the energy from the wall is less at higher voltages and currents?
     
  4. mveras1972

    mveras1972 Member

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    Is not that the energy is less. On the contrary, you’re delivering more energy to the batteries using less current because the voltage is higher. Basically, you’re filling the batteries with the KWh it needs with less effort (or consumption) because 240V is more efficient than 120V at doing the same amount of work. But I may be completely wrong on that.

    However, I’ve always heard that 240V devices consume less power to do the same amount of work. For some reason that makes perfect sense to me.


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  5. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    Energy loss in an electrical circuit is proportional to the square of the current. For the same load, 240 is more efficient than 120 since the current is halved.

    In the case of charging, the load is not the same. The charge rate doubles.
     
  6. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I measured my charge energy on 120 and on 208, both accurately, and they were the same within 1%. So I'm not buying that there's much of an efficiency difference between 120V/12A and 240V/16A.
     
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  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    There is generally a slight efficiency advantage to using a Level 2 charger, though that may apply more to plug ins with cars that can take in more electricity over time than the charger on the Prime. Either way, it isn't enough of an increase to justify installing a Level 2 charger on its own; more of just an added perk.
     
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  8. mveras1972

    mveras1972 Member

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    So are we saying that it does not really cost less (as far as your electric bill) to charge the Prius with 240V instead of 120V?


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  9. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I think the difference between L2 vs L1 for reported kWh for full charge are 6.0-6.3kWh for L2 and 6.5-6.7.kWh for L1. So, yes from the wall L2 cost less per charge, but not enough to offset the cost of installing 240v outlet or buying a L2 EVSE in most cases.
     
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  10. mveras1972

    mveras1972 Member

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    Gotcha. I was doing some math and found the difference in KWh is within the margin of error. I am still considering getting an L2 only because I have a short and open driveway where my Prime is accessible to anyone and I feel uncomfortable leaving it plugged in overnight although I live in a quite safe area. An L2 means I can disconnect the charger before I go to sleep and should be fully charged.


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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Yeah, the reason for installing L2 is for the shorter charge time. Financially, upgrading the house for future BEV is worth more than the electricity saved. Using @Salamander_King figures, I might save 8 cents a full charge on a Prime, or maybe 16 cents for the electricity for a plug in that covers my entire commute.
     
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  12. Blue-Adept

    Blue-Adept Active Member

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    220 to 240 is more efficient for manufacturing and high power demand equipment than 110-120.

    Most homes have 220 split into 110 at the breaker box

    Most of the world is 220 or more. Look at picture.

    110 keeps the battery hotter for longer than 220.

    5 hours plus for 110 heating compared to 2 hours for 220.

    Heat over time is where the KW loss occures with 110. The fans also run longer.
    Biggest perk.
    I think that the shorter recharging time of 220 is worth the money and not having to burn gas as a result.
    BIGGER PERK
    And since my car is powered by my solar panels I can plug in at L2 and at lunch top off the charge.
     

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  13. Rob43

    Rob43 Senior Member

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    Use your OE Toyota EVSE at 240 volts & charge up in 2 1/2 hours, all you need is an adapter.


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  14. Blue-Adept

    Blue-Adept Active Member

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    Yes - Great option!


     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Assuming such an outlet is available.
     
  16. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    That's not where it's split. It's split in the transformer, hence a "split winding transformer".

    You're probably assuming you're leaving the second it's done charging. That's rarely the case.

    Charging at 120V/12A is going to produce less heat in the battery than charging at 240V/16A.

    You're assuming that we often leave home before charging is sufficient for our trip. For me, that's literally happened zero times in the 27 months I've owned my Prime.
     
  17. pineprius

    pineprius 15th Hole #4

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    I have 120v and 240v service at 200amps , measured with a multimeter. Does the rest of the country vary with 110v and 208v or 220v service at 100 amps or more, or is it different from each provider? Or maybe just using old terminology? I still like L2 charging in under 2~ hours.
     
  18. mveras1972

    mveras1972 Member

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    I don’t think you can do that for one simple reason: the OEM EVSE (the cable and the AC plug) are rated for 120V at 15A so it does not support the additional power needed for 240V charging. I was looking at the specs on the charger and it does not say it supports 240V. Which adapter are you talking about?


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  19. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    That's a perfectly good reason to install one. The basic math I would use - "is the cost of this device offset by the value it provides me." If I were you, I'd install one. In my situation, with a covered private garage attached to my house, and generally one (or two short) trips per day, the cost of an L2 would not be offset by any added value. With L1, my car charges just fine while I sleep. 100% every morning, ready for the new day.
     
  20. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    This is not the case. If given 240V power, the stock EVSE will use it and charge at twice the 120V rate. They didn't label it that way for the US market, but it works as demonstrated by @Rob43 . I suspect he will provide the appropriate link.
     
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