How much of the Prime is gen 4?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by MNdriver, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They already do, and not expanding production elsewhere doesn't mean expansion will occur here.

    The discussion is the pack's power output, which can be expressed in kW.
    Toyota's site doesn't list such for the pack, but we subtract the ICE power from the net hybrid power for an estimate. That gives us 19kW for the pack. The traction motor is 53 kW. The battery doesn't have the output to drive the motor at full power alone, and combining input from the ICE and M/G1 likely still falls short of M/G2's 53kW rating.
     
  2. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Is it?
    I was replying to @MikeDee who was amazed from the MG2 extremely high power rating as compared to the Battery's. My post showed that as a generator - MG2 is properly sized to the battery regeneration power. Hope you caught it in the second iteration:ROFLMAO:
     
  3. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Gen 4 system power is rated using a different method from the previous generations, based on actual measurement of peak system power.

    Previous generations used peak ICE power plus peak battery power, but Toyota's implied that at least in the Gen 4, the peaks don't line up.
     
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  4. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    Wondering if the Prime's electric motors are being pushed too hard so they might fail if they have a lot of miles on them.


    iPhone ? Pro
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    very possible, depending on what you consider a lot of miles.
     
  6. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Electric motors fail from overheating or from prolonged operation at high temperatures. I doubt the duty cycle in a car like this can generate either of those conditions. Not enough energy available and if there were you'd be going way too fast very quickly.
     
  7. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    The max power in EV is 68 kW (limited by battery/inverter) while the two motors are rated (together) at 74 kW, I wouldn't worry.
     
  8. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    Why does the Volt need a 111 KW motor?
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    bigger battery, faster acceleration and precious little help from the engine?
     
  10. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    The Volt is positioned as a higher performance vehicle, and GM wanted it to have full performance available without the ICE, hence the more powerful electric system. (Gen 2 doesn't actually have a 111 kW motor, it has a power split architecture and the two motors add up to that. Gen 1, OTOH...)
     
  11. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    Well, if you have a Volt and a Prime climbing a extended 6% grade at 65 mpg in EV mode, which car is pushing their electric motors harder? My concern is that Toyota didn't up size the EV motors from the liftback, and in the Prime they are going to be worked harder/longer. Just hoping they didn't make a design screw up. As an engineer, I have my concerns.
     
  12. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Probably in order to fulfil all the tasks imposed on it.
    Note that Prime's MG2 is 53 kW, reduced from PiP's 60 kW. Don't you trust Toyota's engineers?
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    didn't the pip get upgraded motors over the gen 3?
     
  14. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    No, as far as I remember.
     
  15. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    Actually no. Maybe I should buy the extended warranty. 60 month/60,000 miles doesn't seem like enough.
     
  16. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Prime weighs less, has significantly lower aerodynamic drag (about 11% less drag in fact), and has lower rolling resistance tires.

    Volt's MGA is 48 kW, MGB is 87 kW, for what it's worth.

    It's also easily possible (especially for things like heretical mode) that MG1 is oversized in the Prius, to allow for higher power operation when MG1 is actually applying power and MG2 is being used as the generator during low engine speed, high vehicle speed operation. Toyota's rather coy about releasing MG1 power ratings...
     
  17. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    As a power engineer, specializing in PM electric machines and power electronics, I'm not concerned.

    In Hv mode, which is all a regular Prius has for the most part, much of the power of the ICE is absorbed by MG1 acting as a generator, that power is pumped through the power electronics and out to the wheel through MG2.

    In Ev mode, it's about the same power but MG1 is acting as a motor instead of a generator (yeah - some power is going out mechanically through the planet/annulus mechanical connection but MG1 and MG2 are sized for handling the ICE power in this way).

    These are liquid-cooled motors. There's no way there's enough energy in the entire traction pack to overheat them if they aren't overheated by persistent high power in Hv mode. Their thermal time constants are way too long (at least tens of minutes), and that doesn't include the mass of the liquid, which is being actively cooled.

    I strongly suspect the weak link in the whole chain is the traction battery, not the motors, power electronics, or ICE.
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    a little insurance can provide a beautiful nights rest.
     
  19. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    Thanks for that.
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It accelerates faster and has a top speed of over 100mph. The Volt is a EREV.
    While the thresholds are much higher than in the PiP, and higher than the Energi's, the Prime is still a blended PHEV.
     
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