How much was you electric bill last month?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jul 31 2006, 06:11 PM) [snapback]295433[/snapback]</div>

Only to buy another. I can almost get a Tesla by selling the Rav today!

You're right. ROI was not the proper term. Let's just say that it is the only automobile I've owned that has appreciated every day I've owned it. And I've appreciated it right back.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Aug 1 2006, 05:23 PM) [snapback]295958[/snapback]</div>

Burritos, think about it this way. Toyota is no longer making the RAV EV. Since the person who sold you the car would have to replace it with something at burns gas (or repeat this exercise with someone else) you might as well think about it economically. The RAV4 EV is selling for insane prices so it'll take sometime to get the money back. Granted, the price of gasoline would not be affecting you anymore but you'd have to buy $40K (assuming you paid about $65K for the RAV4 EV) in gas (also assuming that you had no electricity usage exceeding what you can supply with your panels). Anyways, because of the economics it comes out (for now) to your advantage to have bought the prius. Hopefully you'll be able to buy that EV or at least PHEV sometime before the time when having the EV would be more cost effective.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Aug 1 2006, 04:23 PM) [snapback]295958[/snapback]</div>

Keep the Prius and buy an EV when they're next available. Oh... and let your local auto dealerships know that you're holding out for a car that you can plug in before you're willing to next part with your cash. Sure, they look at you like you're crazy... but after a while you just get used to that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Aug 3 2006, 04:25 PM) [snapback]297351[/snapback]</div>

You sure can... as long as you ignore all the great *non-economic* benefits of driving an EV. Even if you consider that somebody else will be driving a gas car, reducing this to an economic exercise at any point is doing the EV movement a disservice. (I typically really enjoy your posts, Tripp - I just have a bug up my butt regarding this particular subject... as you probably already know).

What is the monetary value of never visiting a gas station?
Never changing your oil?
Not polluting your attached garage?
Never dripping gasoline on your hands?
Always having instant torque available from one gear?
Linear, dependable acceleration?
Etc...

These are direct benefits to the person driving the car - not some great pollution credit, or national security credit that can easily pass from one owner to another. The bottom line here is that it would make economic sense for me to take a 100% profit on a car that I've already driven for almos four years... and yet for some crazy reason... I'm keeping it, and driving it every day.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Aug 3 2006, 07:35 PM) [snapback]297433[/snapback]</div>

Darrel,

But it seems that from Burritos point of view the "non-economic" factors are kind of a wash. He (burritos is a he, yes?) strikes me as the kinda person that would consider an EV for all of the "noble" reasons more so than the economic reasons. I was just pointing out that he'd likely be robbing peter to pay paul from an environmental standpoint.

The economics of EVs are nuts now anyways. Clearly the demand is high, or the cars would be depreciating not looking like tech stocks of old. That distorts the situation. If burritos could get one for what you paid it'd probably make a lot of sense. Right now he'd be paying a lot more because of the insane supply/demand dynamic.

 

At my hobby farm, I had a record high of 920 kwh for the month of July. This is about 380 kwh more than I would expect, but the conditions were far from normal.

First of all, we've had a record-setting stretch of hot +35 C weather, and humid too. So my Bryant 2 speed A/C got a workout. Due to the humidity I also ran the dehumidifier in the basement almost constantly, and it's an old model that really sucks the power. Usually the dehumidifier uses more power than my Bryant A/C.

Have had company most of the month of July, doing laundry every day or two. I have an electric clothes dryer so that probably sucked up the power too.

I also have a co-worker keeping his camper at my hobby farm this summer. Due to the heat his A/C was running almost constantly.

All that and my bill came in at $64.88.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Aug 3 2006, 09:10 PM) [snapback]297500[/snapback]</div>

If just about *anybody* could have gotten one for what I paid it would make a lot of sense. My Rav4EV cost me about the same as my Prius after all the rebates were in. The bottom line is that I would have been insane to have passed up the opportunity to drive without gasoline - even if "economics" were the only consideration. Add on the other stuff, and well... what else is there to say?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Aug 7 2006, 08:26 PM) [snapback]299401[/snapback]</div>

Absolutely. It's just sad that yours is a fairly unique situation.

 

We retrofitted our house 10 years ago. Payback time for improvements: 2.5 years (compared to utility costs for surrounding homes). We had continuous high temperatures with record low (very high) temperatures for July. Many households saw monthly bills of $700 to $1200. Our bill: $55.

How? R-100 ceiling, triple pane windows, ceramic tile floors, insulated drapes and curtains, R-45 walls. Retrofitted insulation is rigid polystyrene foil-faced foam cut and fitted between studs and rafters. Code calls for R-30 in ceilings and R-19 in walls - these values are the minimum, not the optimum. I did the work as you cannot hire a contractor who will know what they are doing regarding super insulation.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skruse @ Aug 8 2006, 11:41 AM) [snapback]299649[/snapback]</div>

Good point, a lot of folks apparently just don't understand the payback especially during new construction. Folks will happily put in frills like marble floors, but not better windows, walls, and insulation.

I finished my new home at my hobby farm around 3 years ago, and I'm sold on ICF (Insulated Concrete Form) walls. I went with the thicker 8 inch walls, which the specs claim are equiv. to R-50 wall. Properly done, reinforced concrete walls are VERY strong and have high resistance to damage, as you might expect from a tornado.

I did piling on the foundation to support the extra weight, to avoid any possibility of future settling and cracks. The piling goes down 40 ft and added $7,000 to the price of the foundation.

The key is to do as much as you can yourself. You don't need a Ph.D. in Materials Science to put in your own hardwood floor, or kitchen cabinets, or bathroom ceramic, or wiring/plumbing, etc. Half the cost of a new house is labor, so there should be plenty of incentive for folks to get more involved.

I like this site for home tips, the show is just great. The contractor, Mike Holmes, appears to look really mean and is built like a bar bouncer. But he has a heart of gold and loves kids/pets

http://www.holmesonhomes.com

On many of his episodes he has to fix the absolutely crappy work done on new homes by byuilding contractors. The worst offenders are the more expensive homes and smaller McMansions.

So as far as finding a contractor to do the work to renovate a home to better insulation, more than likely most contractors could even give a s***.

jay

 

I just cut my electric bill significantly. I have peak and off peak rates so I compared the peak readings:
regularly over last 6 months I used typically 400 kwh per month of peak cost power.
Now with my new refrigerator and freezer it has dropped to 102 for last month.

My wattmeter confirms I am saving 50% on freezer (by going from frost free upright to a bit smaller chest manual defrost.)
and 70% on refrigerator by getting a similar but larger one that is extra efficient and way more than my old 28 year old unit.

I can't read much into my total power use of 1100 kwh because of our recent heat wave and lots of extra AC usage, which I only run during off peak rates. So my peak usage is mostly just the new refrigerator and freezer with a little bit of tv usage.

Now I have a Whirlpool Duet front loader washing machine so I should see another cut in my electric costs. Seems to save a lot by using almost no water! Always looks empty but seems to work. My old dryer seems to run about 1/2 hour less per load too.

 

With 2.1 kw solar panel array, 35 bucks total for June and July. House is all electric. Bill would have been less except that my partner is making biodiesel in the garage and uses water heaters in the process. Washington just passed a rebate law for those of us who pump green energy back into the grid. Depending on how much of your system was made in Washington, you get anywhere from 15 cents a kilowatt hour to 45 cents. Lyle and I qualify for the 15 cents, which means that we'll be getting about 500 bucks back from the utility until 2014. Not bad.

B

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bob Allen @ Aug 8 2006, 05:20 PM) [snapback]299821[/snapback]</div>

Geez, we need more incentives like that to get folks to put in solar. Before the NeoCon nuts complain about "subsidies" look at all the incentives and subsidies given to the power, petroleum, and coal industries.