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How Much Water Does A Power Station Use?

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by GrumpyCabbie, May 3, 2012.

  1. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    We've had discussions on here about how much electricity an oil refinery uses - a lot. Well, the UK is presently in an official drought due to 2 'dry' winters. There was an article on one of the tv channels that indicated that 60% of water use in the UK goes to power stations. :eek:

    Surely that can't be right can it? So where would I find the answers to this question than on this forum :cool:

    So how much water does a power station use (I'm leaving the fuel type the power station uses open)?
     
  2. css28

    css28 Senior Member

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    I don't think "use" is an appropriate term because it implies that they consume the water.

    Power plants use water for cooling. The water they cool with is usually drawn from a nearby body of water (river, sea) and most of it returned directly or as water vapor from a cooling tower.

    This is in stark contrast to the water contamination that apparently happens with a hydraulic fracturing setup.

    - Chris
     
  3. Sabby

    Sabby Active Member

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    A large power plant as noted by css28 uses water for cooling which could approach 500,000 gallons per minute. If it has a cooling tower depending on weather and temperature water vapor release may be in the range of 25,000 gallons per minute. Of course eventually that water will return as rain.
     
  4. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    So it's extraction from a river? So all the water extracted is returned? Or does a lot of it end up in the sky despite the use of cooling towers?
     
  5. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    So 25,000 gallons a minute can be 'lost' into the sky? So that river will be much lower than if the power plant wasn't there?

    The fact the water returns as rain doesn't really help as our loss is Swedens benefit?
     
  6. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    The cooling water recirculates, but eventually evaporates. Some of the excess heat is transfered by direct conduction, but most goes out through evaporation. The specific heat of vaporization for water is 540 calories per gram, so knowing the capacity and efficiency of a power plant you can get a good estimate with that number.

    Tom
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The plants also use water for steam to drive the turbines, but it isn't just dumped down the drain. Most of it is condensed by the cooling water and returned to the boiler.

    Unless the plants are at the head of a river or using a reservoir, I don't see how their cooling water use has much affect on municipal water supplies.
     
  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Believe it is possible to design an ultra-clean natural gas power plant that does not use much if any cooling water. However, this is probably more expensive so more commonly you will see cooling water on big plants. It is possible to use gray water which is treated municipal waste water.

    Not sure what your TV station was trying to say, if there is competition for drinking water supplies then need to start using gray water and designing power plants for less water use.
     
  9. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    The power plants that produce my electricity use a LOT of water. In fact, they use nothing but water.
     
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  10. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    If 25,000 litres are blowing into the air rather than recirculated back into the river, then that's 25,000 litres less in the river. Less to be cleaned and treated by the town downstream, less for irrigation for a farmer to use.

    Sure we have to have power stations but I didn't realise they used/wasted so much water. A 5% or 10% loss when you are using 500,000 litres a minute is a heck of a lot.

    I just didn't realise how interconnected our waste of resources was in the Western World. Burning oil uses oil - a finite resource but also uses shed loads of coal or nat gas to power the power plant to refine it. A power station uses loads of coal or nat gas too, but I didn't know it lost so much water (ok it falls as rain - just somewhere else) either. If the average Westerner uses 200 litres of water a day and they ask you to cut back in dry conditions, isn't that pi**ing in the wind compared to the 25,000 litres a MINUTE lost to the sky by the power station?

    And then we get onto 8 litres of water used to make a 1 litre bottle of water. The more I hear, the more I think it's all madness and waste. Surely there has to be a better way where we can still enjoy our lives without so much waste?

    Or am I turning into a hippy in my old age? ;)
     
  11. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    LCRA, the state agency that governs the water in my region, successfully blocked a coal power plant, but not permitting them a permit for the quantity of water they would use. It does not all go back in the river:mad: Our environmentally challenged governor would have stepped in I'm sure if their wasn't validity to water conservation in this region. Coal uses more water/kwh than natural gas and windmills only use water when they are being manufactured.

    This is a river/reservoir situation, but the plant would affect quantities down stream. The nuclear plant I get power from is near the end of a river, and the water turns brackish downstream, so that was not an issue when it was built. Nucs cause a great deal of heat pollution changing the ecosystem near the water they use.
     
  12. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

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    That is common for nuclear plants, either on a river or a lake, or draining into the ocean. It's not coincidence that Japan built many of its nuclear plants along the ocean.

    Ethanol plants also use a lot of water. When ethanol was being heavily promoted, there was debate in the rural areas where the plants were being built, as they might use as much water as the whole rest of the county. I think they came up with some ideas to reduce that a bit, but it still uses a lot of water.

    Unfortunately, I don't have good numbers for GC.
     
  13. Vege-Taco

    Vege-Taco Junior Member

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    Power plants don't consume much water. They utilize a lot of water, over and over and over again. For the most part it's the same water being continually heated and condensed. Hydro-electric plants don't consume any water. They simply make harness the energy that would otherwise be wasted as gravity moves the water downstream.
     
  14. Vege-Taco

    Vege-Taco Junior Member

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    People concerned about conserving water and the environment should adopt a vegan lifestyle. :D

    One pound of beef requires an input of approximately 2500 gallons of water, whereas a pound of soy requires 250 gallons of water and a pound of wheat only 25 gallons. Meat production is inefficient as it requires the consumption of an extensive amount of resources over many months and years before becoming a usable food product. With the water used to produce a single hamburger, you could take a luxurious shower every day for two and a half weeks.

    The specific numbers vary from source to source, but the trend stays the same.
     
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  15. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The details a new coal plant -

    White Stallion near Bay City TX. Proposed 1,200 MW coal powered plant, needing to contract 25,400 acre-feet of Colorado River water, or about 8.3 billion gallons per year, an amount equivalent to 15 percent of Austin's annual water consumption. It was estimated that it would have produced about 10 million tons of CO2/year also.

    That is a lot of water by any measure, and we have a lot of people and crops that need it more than the coal does. The state was going to let it go through but then drought years happened reminding them that in the 1950s there just wasn't enough water to go around.

    Yes, the difference is South Texas Power is not in a earthquake zone, is well above the flood plain, and is built to higher standards than other us nuclear plants. They built it, when the congress had made it illegal to build natural gas for base load, which made the choice nuclear or coal.

    Ethanol also takes up a great deal of water to raise the corn. Hopefully the numbers above will help GC out.
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  17. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    It's a shocking amount of water wasted and more of a reason to turn to cleaner form such as solar PV which despite some short comings (doesn't work at night) has plenty of positives. It can also be 99% recycled after its 25 year working life.

    When EV batteries are no longer of use in a car, there are some plans to introduce them as a home energy system to store power from wind and pv during the day whilst the householders are at work, to provide power in the evening. I liked this idea as you're insulated from the fluctuations of the energy market, you're independent, but now, you're also saving lots of water too.

    I really would be interested to know how big that power plant was where the 25,000 litres of water are lost each minute. How many people does it provide power for? and then we can work out how much water per person is disappearing into the sky each day? I'm interested in the figure of water lost into the sky rather than the water used and returned back to the rivers.

    I have a feeling we'll be surprised at actually how much water we all use each day, not just in our home but in power generation. And that's before we digress onto how much water cattle use - but being a meat eater I'll hold back on that for now :)
     
  18. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    You are correct. The difference in most power plant water is that it does not go through water treatment. However, it still uses water from the same sources that a lot of municipal water is coming from, depending on where the plant is located. If those sources are being depleted, then big problems are imminent.

    Out in CA, there is a big bottleneck of putting power plants inland. The following link shows how a new solar plant must use less efficient air cooling, since water cooling is just not possible.


    Update from Ivanpah – April 2012 | Brightsource Ivanpah


    Scroll down to the condenser tower photo to see how cooling must be done in the desert.
     
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  19. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Absolutely true!

    I introduced this point here once a while back, and boy, oh, boy, did the Prius drivers ever complain! They're delighted to save a little gas by driving their Priuses, but they don't want to hear about the environmental effects of farming meat.

    (I had actually read lower numbers, but the same relationship: ten times the land and 100 times the water to produce meat compared to an equivalent amount of vegetable protein.)
     
  20. enerjazz

    enerjazz Energy+Jazz=EnerJazz

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    Water is used in several ways in a power plant:
    - To produce steam to turn the turbines that produce electricity.
    - To cool equipment by absorbing the waste heat produced by power generation. This is done with either once-through or closed-loop cooling systems. Closed-loop systems reuse water rather than returning it to the source.

    Each kilowatt-hour (kWh) of generation requires the withdrawal of approximately 25 gallons of water, primarily for cooling purposes. That's what must be withdrawn - they actually consume far less. That consumption is caused by evaporation. On average, 2 gallons of water are lost to evaporation for each kWh consumed at the point of end use, though this number varies greatly due to many factors. In a dry climate like Arizona almost 8 gallons of water are lost to evaporation per kWh consumed.