How much would you pay for a 30 mile EV mode?

Yeah but what do I pull it with? My Prius?? :huh:

Oh I see! I rent an SUV from your first link.

But what if I'm moving from WI to CA. That would be pretty darn expensive to rent that for that kind of mileage!

 

And that would cost tons wouldn't it?

 

One guy on ebay said he could get someone to ship the BEV he was selling for $700 anywhere in the US.

 

Yeah I didn't even start thinking about the service part of it. That would be a big problem too

 

Actually, the 45 mph limitation wouldn't be that bad at all. Think about it. If you're using the electric motors to accelerate to 45 mpg and then the ICE kicked in to handle most of the work beyond that speed you'd still be saving a ton of gas and you'd get all of the benefits of full EV below that speed. I think that'd still work for many people. The problem is that you'd need a bigger MG to smoothly and quickly (to meet consumer expectations) accelerate up to 45 mph. On the other hand, you could get away with an even smaller ICE. The drawback here would be for mountain driving after the battery has been drained. The smaller ICE would really struggle in a car the size of a Prius I would think.

 

if you can plug it in to charge it.. for the most part, i would never need gas.... sweet almost as sweet as the 2 foot pixie stick i'm eating... mm...

 

Come on it would be MUCH sweeter than than sugar stick your eating!

Can you imagine never having to go to a gas station. B)

 

Let's not get too hung up on the max speed specs of a PHEV in EV mode.

Firstly, who knows what a redesigned Toyota PHEV would look like. But starting from a Prius, the 41 mph speed limit for EV, depending on who you ask, either requires ICE turnover that can be accomplished with battery power alone, or petrol consumption of 0.2 gallons/hour. In the worse case, it is still a *whole* lot less petrol than we use now. At 60 mph, that works out to 300 mpg (petrol use)

PHEV redesign
Engine sizing is an interesting question, and will come down to consumer preference: Do you want a large engine that is unused most of the time, but there to turn the car into a no-compromise car after the battery runs out ? Or do you want a car that benefits from a small engine all the time, but will have slow acceleration when the HV is depleted ? I think of this question thus: In our current Prius, the battery is an assist to the ICE most of the time, although gliding is the exception. In a PHEV, I turn it around, and expect the ICE to spend more of it's time in the assist role

In city drving (at least for me), I doubt I demand more than 40 kW coming off a red light. So even if my PHEV battery cannot give that amount of power, a very small engine is more than enough for assist.

In highway driving steady state power req's are about 20 kW, and acceleration to highway speeds a wide range -- (50 - 80 kW sounds about right). I would size the engine to give 15 second 0 - 60 times working by itself, and ~ 10 seconds in conjunction with the HV.

Bottom line: A high capacity, 30 kW electrical propulsion, mated to a 60 kW ICE would be no compromise, super efficient driving for the HV battery range, and slow acceleration but ~ 60 - 80 mpg driving after the HV is drained until the next plugin.

Give me capacity; I'll do just fine with power compromise.

Heck yeah !!

 

I would be ok with a limited amount of speed to use the battery alone. If I could do my driving around the city on just electric I would be fine with that.

I just want to be able to go about about 40-60 miles on a charge.

Then I would only have to worry about using gas for my long distance driving!

I WANT IT! I WANT IT! LOL

 

I'd pay an additional 5K. And I'd get the same package I have now: all the safety features, but no other extras. This is assuming that it was plug-in and could go 45 mph in electric mode regardless of whether I initiated it with the EV button or the car decided on its own. (Right now it will go 42 mph if the car decides, but only 34 mph if I used the EV switch.)

I'd still use the gas engine to accelerate, because that's more efficient. But I'd like to be able to use electric for longer stretches when speed is constant. Wayne Brown has demonstrated that the additional battery capacity improves mileage. And that's without plug-in. Plug-in would allow a very large part of the total energy used to come from the grid, while still allowing long drives. But I'd want it factory-installed.

The amount I'd pay has more to do with what I can afford than with any analysis of what's cost-efficient. I think that in the long term there's better potential for renewable energy sources to produce electricity than to produce combustible fuels for gas engines, so I see plug-in hybrids as a further move toward sustainable energy.

I applaud what Calcar is doing, but I don't think I want them messing with my Prius. And there's no doubt that Calcar's mod would void the warranty.

 

that pixie stick was pretty sweet.. I believe testing with the plug in hybrids resulted in 80+mpg because you have to run the gas engine to keep the battery system from overheating.

 

I want a sweet pixie stick! (I haven't had one in years and years!)

I could deal with 80+mpg! Just give me something....... (It's 2006!!!!!!!!!)

 

Two things.

It is a not fair to state that the vehicles come with a "built in charger".
It is pretty obvious that the inverter has the ability to push power back into the HV battery, but it is not designed or intended as a device to change two phase 120V AC into DC for use to charge the battery.

There are significant differences between taking the regenerated output from the motor(s) to charge the batteries, and taking line power to charge the batteries.
The desires expressed seem to be based on short term gain, versus long term dependability/reliability. Obviously no-one is angling to kill their car quicker, but the battery simply isn't designed for use as an EV power source.

IMHO, as others have alluded to, the battery technology does not currently exist to allow an EV only vehicle.
Current storage density is insufficient.
Full cycling 0 to 100 percent is "tough" on current batteries. This is avoided in current HVs to ensure long term reliability (that people expect).
Temperature/output concerns exist with current batteries, also limiting pratical usability. If you look at the following datasheet, consider the battery capacity at low temps. If you are at ~0 deg C, you have about ~15% capacity? Now assume that the battery was at about 55% when the vehicle was parked. You will have access to 15% of 55%. Not a hell of a lot of capacity. http://www.peve.panasonic.co.jp/e_catalog1.html
If you consider the above energy storage situation, it becomes easier to see why the value of the EV mode on a Prius is so limited (IMHO), especially at cold temps.

The vehicle needs to keep a "resevoir" of energy in the battery, to meet potential demand. Thus the engine runs.
The vehicle needs to be "prepared" in case the user shuts it off at any time. Being prepared means that the ICE will run to ensure that resevoir is available.

The vehicle will "balance" the running of the engine for charge purposes, and running for catalyst/engine warm-up reasons.

Also, remember that there is no such thing as zero emissions from an EV.
The only question is where the electricity is generated.

Anyways, sorry I have babbled on. All things are a compromise, and one key thing to remember is that the vehicle has been thourougly conceived as a HV. Not as an EV.

 

The poll's option is not for a pure EV, but a PHEV. With a change in battery technology and greater capacity, the Prius is quite well suited for this with minor modifications. True, it won't be zero emissions, but it will be one heck of a lot better than anything I have ever driven. Most of our region's electricity comes from hydropower, so I won't feel too guilty plugging in and unplugging from the foreign oil pump.

As far as battery capacity, there are significant changes in lithium ion capacity and they continue to be happening. Also, the lead-acid front is undergoing a revolution right now. I think we'll be seeing some interesting changes in a year or two.
http://www.technologyreview.com/NanoTech-D...278,303,p1.html
http://www.fireflyenergy.com/Plug-in%20Hybrid2.pdf
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/12/toyota_pushing_.html

 

We don't have to pay much extra. Just add a plug in charger to the prius. I don't care if it is only a 5 mile range. Current top speed is fine. The charge in the battery can stay within acceptable limits that don't cause it to fail. In other words I'm not talking about 100% charge to 0% charge. What ever toyota says are acceptable limits. 40%-60%?

 

Assuming 45 mpg (CU's figure) and a very generous 3 mile range in EV and $3 gas, adding a charger to the present model Prius, each plug-in would save you .067 of a gallon of gas, or 20 cents (if the grid electricity was free). And you'd have to drive with a feather-light touch on the pedal to keep the car from starting the engine on its own. In my opinion, that's pretty pointless. I would not even bother plugging it in.

 

There are companies that specealize in shipping vehicles. You can do a google search for a free quote. You could probably find something in the $500 to $700 range.