How the American worker-consumer caused the loss of jobs at GM...

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Georgina Rudkus, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Lapsed Cargo Cultist

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    Maybe nothing is ever "solved", hopefully "nudging" in a good direction.
     
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  2. Georgina Rudkus

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    My husband's friend who was around in the 1980's when Japan became both the financial, engineering and technological powerhouse was touted to remain in the same position in the future.

    He advocated and predicted that China would be the "rising sun, " not Japan. Japan's middle age and elderly population was reduced by WWII and did not have the elderly pensioners and Social Security burden that was starting to affect the economy in the US. China had an expanding young population that eventually alarmed short sighted government officials. Now they know the disaster that was called the "one child policy." China is already plagued, today with willing workers and rising wages. That's why they look for technology and automation for their future needs.

    That nationalist in Germany complain about the younger refugees that Merkel has taken in as their population grows older. Years from now, they will realize haw great she was while the rest of Europe has an ageing population and few workers to support them.

    The same goes for the unintended consequences of the current political climate of restricting immigration into the US.
     
  3. ALS

    ALS Active Member

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    Scotty Kilmer has a video out today on GM and their building cars in China hitting on the original subject of this thread.

    It's hysterical since it seems Scotty hit Happy Hour a little early.

     
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  4. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    It's hilarious how tipsy he appears to be. Yet he makes perfect sense. Big 3 made terrible cars for at least 4 consecutive decades, got bailed out more than once, took jobs outside the country, etc. I was so hoping the whole thing would be over in '08. But no, another decade of garbage product and lies.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    'mary barra meets with congress for dog and pony show'
     
  6. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    That's why she makes $22M/year. Good at Dog and Pony shows. Probably will receive a chunky bonus this year for saving the company. Sickening...
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    to get bailed out, have 6 or 8 great years of auto sales and profits, then need to close plants and cut jobs tells me it's the same old gm headed for another downfall.

    not because of workers or consumer choices, but because of poor management, same old same old.
     
  8. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    They should have received an anchor or an anvil instead of the bailout. Everyone would be 10 years ahead today.
     
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  9. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    The premise of this thread is we are our own worst economic enemy because we choose to buy higher quality products for less...not manufactured here in the U.S. Whether someone barely lives off the Government or works for the Government making Millions, if U.S. manufactures made quality vehicles like Honda and Toyota do at the same price point this would not be an issue. I've been fixing and personally owned more vehicles than most likely anyone here...and I know junk. The fault lies with the U.S. manufactures offering crappy product at maximum price with low reliability. For the record, Honda and Toyota still make a better product. It's not the fault of people that demand true cost/value, or the U.S. Government's fault. It's the U.S. auto manufactures fault.
     
  10. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    The vehicles built in this country with the most American parts and labor have Japanese names on them.
    American manufacturers started importing small cars and small trucks years ago and put their name on them and still do. Big companies only believe in the $$$.
    The car market has changed, I bet if you go to those GM plants that will be shut down you will find trucks, SUV's and other GM crossover vehicles in the lot. Even the employees don't buy many of those cars.
     
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  11. Georgina Rudkus

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    My exact thoughts as I originally said. "Do as I say; not as I do."
     
  12. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I'm no good at providing links.
    But I think back to a 2014 Superbowl ad for Chrysler, featuring Bob Dylan. I would recommend anyone take a look at it, it's interesting in it's perspective, in just 4 years, as Ford and GM, downsize, and focus their North America sales on SUV's and Trucks, while abandoning much of their automobile production.

    IMO it's a fiercely patriotic ad. It's an American Icon, promoting America. It's a call to remember, the history of the automobile and the open road in the USA. It's a pitch for Chrysler...BUT..

    It starts with Dylan asking "Is there anything more American than America?"
    It ends with Dylan saying " Let Germany brew your beer, Let Switzerland make your watch, Let Asia assemble your phone, We will build your car." .

    At the time, Bob Dylan took a lot of heat and criticism for the ad.
    But today, as I watch Ford and GM pull away from manufacturing cars, I have to wonder if Dylan wasn't right.
    To me, it's more than just the psychological or consumer truth that people offered similar products will most often purchase the product that costs them less.

    There is IMO cause and affect.

    I'm as guilty as anyone. Growing up in the 70's and 80's, my family which most often was looking at economical smaller vehicles, most often bought Toyota's, Honda's or Volkswagens. In the 70's especially, they had the better products in that segment.

    But today?
    Would Ford and GM be curtailing automobile production IF we ( The American Consumer ) had bought more American made sedans and hatchbacks as opposed to automobiles produced by foreign based companies?

    If we, as Dylan proposes, let Chrysler,- ( GM, Ford )....make our cars?

    I think the answer is we do make a difference. The consumer choices we make, do make an impact.
    And I think, we as consumers haven't been fair.
    For many of my generation, we never forgot the poor mediocrity of the 70's K-Cars, Gremlins and weak imitations of imported small cars. But should we of embraced American automobiles for our own good?

    Even as an owner of a Honda Fit, from a American family that most often bought foreign imports, I have to honestly say yes.

    I even look at my recent purchase. I paid more, for a Honda Fit, based on reputation. Based on a history of my family buying Toyota's, Honda's and Volkswagens.
    But specifically, the Chevy Spark, was actually cheaper, and very similarly reviewed.
    Am I part of the problem for not considering American made products.
    It may not make me feel good, but honestly, I have to say Yes.
    And maybe I don't blame the US automaker so much. I think they have made good/great products. "We" just too much wanted a Honda Accord, or Toyota Camry instead of a Ford Taurus or Chevy Impala.

    Maybe, people shouldn't of been so hard on Bob Dylan for making an ad for Chrysler.
    Because maybe, just maybe he was right.
    We should of let Detroit...make our automobiles.
    Because what is happening? Is we are reaching a point where Automobiles aren't being made and sold to us anymore by American Automakers, and given the history of the Automobile in the USA?
    I find that sad.
     
    #32 The Electric Me, Dec 7, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
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  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Thank you for spelling out exactly what I had in my mind.;)
     
  14. Georgina Rudkus

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    The irony is that the Chevrolet "Spark" is made in Korea in the erstwhile Daewoo plant that was purchased by GM.
     
  15. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    True.
    To compete, auto production has become an international operation. I almost didn't mention the Spark because I knew that flaw in the argument would be raised. But my point is more towards the simple fact that I think a lot of consumers, especially in the sedan and hatchback market, don't even seriously consider any American badged product.
     
  16. Georgina Rudkus

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    On the other hand, foreign and domestic companies often purchase rights to trademarks of defunct US companies that had good reputations, manufacture their goods overseas with the intent of "fooling" US consumers into believing that they may be purchasing US made goods as many consumers do not often do deeper research into their purchase.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    iirc, pre gm bankruptcy union workers were paid to stay home and not work, or something like that
     
  18. Georgina Rudkus

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    Can you really sorry for them? Now, that some of them are losing their jobs?

    It's like they want their side to tilt the playing field in their favor.

    They don't want those immigrants who work harder for lower wages to compete with them. And, they do not want to compete with workers overseas.

    Yet, they are willing to buy the goods made by those workers while demanding higher wages for goods they make and will not buy for themselves?

    How can one really feel sorry for them.

    The days of the tariff protected domestic market are gone.
     
  19. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    So Trump is correct about the trade imbalance partially due to foreign subsidies. I am glad to see some sensible discussion here instead of the popular Trump bashing.
     
  20. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I am sure unions cause added costs for companies. Why do you think Tesla has no unions?
     
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