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How to confirm a battery pack has been replaced?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by treed678, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. treed678

    treed678 Junior Member

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    I'm looking at a vehicle for sale and the owner said he is replacing the pack at the dealership. He is also raising the sale price. So, I can ask for papers before meeting. In case he "forgets" them or anything like that, is there a way to tell if a NEW pack has been installed?

    Obviously he might not want me to dismantle the back of the car, so hopefully this would be fairly easy.

    Thanks! Oh... and I love the forum.
     
  2. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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  3. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    I would take the car to the dealer in question and have them tell you the story. The car has the ability to check itself and provide a warning if something is bad. The dealer could run diagnostic tests for a price. I would not pay more than private party book value regardless since you could buy another one for that price. An 06 probably does not have a problem unless it has run well over 125k in which case you might be better off buying one with less miles.
     
  4. treed678

    treed678 Junior Member

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    Correct, this is not a wagon.

    It is 115K on a 2006 for $7K. Typically they're $1,000 more and hundreds of miles from me. I've only talked to the seller briefly. He mentioned a bad block and something about the work being done under warranty. The warranty expires after 100K, right? He said this would extend it.

    I got voicemail today that it's finished, so I'll call him tomorrow and get more details. I'll get the VIN and check it at the above site. Hopefully it is updated quickly. Thanks
     
  5. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Then you've posted in the wrong area. This is for the Prius v wagon.

    We don't know what state you're in. CA and CARB emissions states get a 10 year/150K mile HV battery warranty. Rest of the US get 8 years/100K miles. As for extending the warranty, it'll be warranted for 1 year extra (assuming the HV battery is gone already), I believe.
     
  6. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    I would not touch this car unless you can get blessings from the dealer, especially if "a bad block" (battery, engine?) was repaired.
     
  7. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    Moved to the gen II forum.
     
  8. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    There area a couple of ways to check the new HV battery. One is to get a copy of the Service Report from the owner or the dealer for the battery replacement. It should show the details of the installation along with the costs.

    Another is with the VIN you can go to the Toyota Owner's website and create a new account. This will show you all of the service records if the car was serviced at a Toyota dealership.
     
  9. treed678

    treed678 Junior Member

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    I'm in a non-CARB state, which stinks.

    He referred to the "bad block" as part of the battery pack. It wasn't a term I'm familiar with. I am fairly comfortable working with electricity (never "serious" DC power though), so I figured I would take my chances and replace a pack/cell/etc, if necessary. These cars seem pretty reliable otherwise.

    I took notes earlier on "things to look for in a used Prius" in older posts, so I'll try to refresh my memory on that. Other than the pack, it seems like inverter pumps(?) sometimes failed. Then of course all the other stuff... title, leaks, etc.

    Assuming nothing major goes wrong, I'll save $2,000/year in gas @ $3.75/gal. That's a no brainer choice for me. I plan to refurbish my own pack later, upgrade to an extended range kit, and charge with solar. I have a passion for sustainable projects (solar pv/thermal, recently aquaponics, now vehicle), so a hybrid or EV purchase is just a matter of time, not a phase for me.

    Thanks again for the input.
     
  10. treed678

    treed678 Junior Member

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    Here were the codes for recent service. It looks like the battery wasn't from Toyota?

    "CUSTOMER STATES VEHICLE USING EN GINE NOT BATTERY, RED TRIANGLE C AME ON, WARNING LIGHT, BATTERY K EEPS GOING TO TWO BARS ~|~FOUND CODES P3000, P0A80, P30 11 ~|~EST TO REPLACE HYBRID BATTERY WITH LABOR AND TAX $3294 CUST T O PURCHASE BATTERY ELSEWHERE AND HAVE INSTALLED HERE, EST $460 F OR LABOR"
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    so you're getting a used battery. you need to do your due diligence on this, don't let him rush you. gas savings sound sweet, but not if you have to pump serious $$$ into the car.
     
  12. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    You will have a battery that could already have 100-150k on it. Think twice.
     
  13. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Yes the s/h battery is a bit risky, but he's only paying 7k fro a 2006 Prius!

    I'd take it for a good test drive to make sure the battery is ok, and if so then buy it.
     
  14. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    Can you not contact the owner and get him to give you the details of where he purchased the battery and if used, the mileage of the used battery? That would help me determine whether to buy or not.

    If he got a low mileage battery from a wrecked Prius that should be fine. Also if he bought a reconditioned battery from somewhere like Reinvolt then that should be perfectly fine. You should be able to get a lot of additional miles on the car and the battery.
     
  15. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    I agree with jd. Let's not get crazy here and assume all is bad but let's not assume all is good. $7000 for an 06 is a great deal but, we need the whole picture to give you good advice. Here's some questions I have:
    1) Where did he get the replacement battery from?
    2) How does the car look on the inside/outside?
    3) What color is the oil and how full is it?
    4) What do the service records look like on the Toyota Owners website? Is it all at the dealer or are there gaps?

    Ultimately you will have to make your own decision but we will try to give you good advice.
     
  16. treed678

    treed678 Junior Member

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    Thanks. I thought it was a good deal too, and close which is rare. I'm meeting the guy today. I haven't mentioned the "used" battery yet because I want to see the expression & hear the story in person. He has been very polite and responsive to all of my questions so far. I'll test drive it. I read something about bad transmissions costing a fortune, and being "jerky" while driving, but generally haven't seen or read much about that online. Otherwise, I believe I need to look for the following (feel free to add anything):

    Regular car stuff - oil, tires, bodywork, leaks, everything operational, carfax, etc.
    Hybrid/Prius stuff: battery (and where it came from, receipt), stuck brake lights (bad switch?), service light (frequent coolant pump issues), headlights (HID?).

    I did look at the service records from the Toyota site, but I don't understand some of it, like the codes. I'm thinking worst, case, this thing is junk and I might get $3K for parts. Otherwise, it's something like a $1K gamble if the battery is in decent condition. I could live with that because of the significant gas savings. If the battery is complete garbage, pretty rare it seems, then I might be out a few grand. Not really "cool," but not catastrophic either.
     
  17. treed678

    treed678 Junior Member

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    Ok, I drove the car and there was a little bit of "popping" like worn strut mounts. It was not a heavy, grinding noise or anything like that. Is this normal? Also the brakes or regen seemed louder than it should have been, but I haven't driven enough of them to know. Otherwise the car was in pretty good shape. Carpet was a little dirty, but everything paint or metal was really clean.

    Toyota replaced the battery @ 40% of cost according to a 9/22 record. The 9/10 record may have just been a quote for replacing a battery. He has a receipt for this, but did not have it with him. He will bring it when we close the deal.

    Even if the battery was used, it should not be likely that a crap one would be put in it, right? It was 65-70% charged from what I could tell. He drove it 30 miles to meet me. It seemed like the engine was running more than it should have been - A/C was on - but I haven't been in them much.
     
  18. treed678

    treed678 Junior Member

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    The popping was while driving over bumps and such, not while sitting, accelerating/decelerating.
     
  19. dorunron

    dorunron Senior Member

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    Concerning the brakes, most report front pads will last till 150K, however some like myself have had to replace pads and rotors earlier than that. If they are noisy, it would be a good idea to do a inspection on the front and back brakes. You may find you simply need new pads up front along with cleaning and adjustment of the rear brakes. Also, it is common for the front brake rotors to show rust on the older cars. That is because the frction brakes are not used much during the regen, but rather just before the car stops (7 MPH and lower) unless you are doing a panic stop.

    Concerning the traction battery, it sounds like you are good to go there. 65-70% is normal and the SOC (state of charge) will vary depending on conditions.

    Concerning the engine running a lot, until you learn about hypermiling and such along with the four states of the ICE, more than likely you will think the engine is running more than it should. If you simply drive the car, the engine will pretty much run all of the time with a few exceptions of speeds under 41 MPH. If you are on the highway, the engine will be running pretty much all of the time unless you are coasting. Once you learn about hypermiling along with pulse and glide you will then be able to drive the car where the engine does not run as much.

    I can't comment on the "popping" sound, however it should be something that a good front end man can trace down. Usually you simply lift the car up on a rack, then start moving the suspension parts until you find the culprit. It is typical of the struts to be worn and needing replacement at 100K on the odometer.

    The only thing that comes to my mind is the condition of the fluids. The inverter and the engine coolant needed to be changed at 100K. Also, the transaxle is recommended by most here on this board to have the fluid changed every 60K. Along with that the spark plugs should be changed at 100K.

    If you do buy the car, try to find out about the above fluid items along with the spark plugs. If they haven't been done, I would consider doing them in the near future.

    The only other thing that comes to mind is the 12 volt auxilliary battery. Some folks report the battery wearing out quickly where other's find the battery goes a long time. The auxilliary does not "crank" the engine, the traction battery does that, however the 12 volt battery is responsible for booting the computers in order for the car to become "ready". With that said, it is a good idea to monitor the voltage levels of the auxilliary battery and change it before it is exhausted. There is a lot of info on this board concerning the 12 volt battery, so don't hesitate to read up on it.

    I have no doubt other's will mention other things. Good luck, happy driving, and welcome to Prius Chat.

    Ron
     
  20. treed678

    treed678 Junior Member

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    Thanks! Ok, I went ahead and bought the car. It is AWESOME!! Over 250 miles, I'm averaging 53mpg and I'm ecstatic. That's 3X the mileage of my Xterra, lol. I typically coast a LOT anyway, so I think that's really helped the with the brake regen. Otherwise I'm mostly driving in traffic and limiting my top speed, which I my normal driving habit. The little ICE isn't super efficient and of course drag is increased exponentially with increasing speeds. Anything over 55-60 mph really seems to start take a toll on gas mileage. <60 is ok for me. What's the hurry, you know?

    For the "clunking" noise, I'm almost certain now this is worn strut insulators. I have done my own struts many times (previous Maxima owner & had 3 sets of springs w/ adjustable Tokicos) and will probably replace them myself. I have not looked for leaking strut oil, but I will replace the struts anyway when I install new spring isolators. For anyone who hasn't done this, releasing/compressing springs is a very dangerous job so you need to be aware of that. Here are several threads regarding the issue:

    Symptoms: Rattle clunk from front end | PriusChat
    Symptoms: Noise / Rattle From Front Right Suspension? | PriusChat
    Job: Hints Regarding Replacement of 2G Front Struts | PriusChat
    Assembly: http://priuschat.com/attachments/front-suspension-jpg.40575/

    I will ask the seller about the spark plugs. He mentioned all of the fluids being replaced, including the transmission, and they appear to be clean. He says he put ceramic pads on the front recently. I'm a little confused though. What's the orange fluid between the ICE and EV motor? This is not the transmission fluid, correct? Sorry, still learning.

    The "grinding" noise during low speeds/braking has me a little worried. It sounds like bad wheel bearings or metal to metal pads to rotor, but the noise doesn't get louder at speed like my Maxima did and there is no brake fade. Is this part of the regen system making the noise? Replacing wheel bearings is not fun. I don't believe that's what it is because it fades with speed. The car was so quiet in fact, except for the strut clunking, at speed on a 100 mile road trip last night that I had to roll down the windows to keep myself awake! lol. My previous cars have had much more wind noise. Funny, I didn't think "quietness" could be a problem, haha.