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How to know if control arm needs replacement?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by J Conner, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. J Conner

    J Conner New Member

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    I have a 2004 Prius with 200k miles. I've been told many times that the suspension needs work - specifically the shocks, need to be replaced. I believe that....so I finally invested in new strut assemblies. However, I was also told in regards to creaking and groaning noises - which I attribute to the brakes (sounds like rear brake groaning whenever brake pedal is touched) - that I should replace the lower front control arms. This makes no sense to me. I started replacing the front strut assemblies, and in the process was looking at one of the control arms. I don't see any problem. Boots seem to be intact, no looseness that I can feel in the ball joint. I don't hear any clunking sounds of loose suspension parts when driving. How would I know if I'm wasting my time and $ on something that doesn't need to be replaced? 200k miles seems to justify replacing the control arms, but how would I know that the mechanic isn't just finding unnecessary repairs?
     
  2. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Not many lca's have been replaced on this forum its not a big repair item but at 200,000 miles who knows. But at that mileage I wouldn't put alot of money into the suspension because its been riding pretty bad for quite a while anyway so I would just run it into the ground at those miles. Your looking at some expensive repair items down the road like the hybrid battery or possible abs actuator. Its like any other high mileage old car with a special little expensive time bomb in the back hatch the hybrid battery.

    But if you chasing noises I wouldn't worry about the ball joint its more about the 2 bushings on the lca wearing out they will make a loud clunk over speed bumps etc. There's no boots associated with the lca's there on the cv joints. The big noise maker is the stabilizer links. They are classic creaking when turning the wheel.
     
  3. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

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    You'll know because it can't be aligned properly do to sagging. The rubber is 15 years old with the weight of the car on it. My tires wore fast and uneven on my 04. 246,000
    I changed the arms and struts , strut mounts and alignment is good again.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  4. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

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    They have lower control arms with the ball joints for 47 bucks each on rock auto. Not a budget buster if you can replace yourself.
     
  5. J Conner

    J Conner New Member

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    I have already bought the control arms - MOOG parts - and ball joints from Olathe Toyota. But since I got in there and couldn't see any visible or audible problem, I'm thinking of returning them. Thanks for the replies and info guys!
     
  6. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

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  7. J Conner

    J Conner New Member

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    Not yet, but intentionally have not driven it much since replacing the struts, while debating the control arms. There was some play in the strut fit. I knew an alignment afterward would be needed. The MOOG control arms and Toyota ball joints cost about $200 total. I will go ahead and put on the new control arms and then have the alignment done. It's good to have a lifetime alignment policy(!). I use it at least as often as every oil change.
     
    audiodave likes this.
  8. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

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    Trust the rubber may look fine but it's not.
    Passenger side is much more work to swap because the oil pan is in the way. I dropped most of the sub frame to get the bolt out. Be prepared. Drivers side is easy, passenger much more work.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  9. J Conner

    J Conner New Member

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    Started on the drivers side, and already in trouble. The old control arm BTW was just fine, but the ball joint boot had a break in it. I'm following a how to video on YouTube, which makes this look EASY, but none of it has been easy, past removing the wheel. Is this video for real?! I have spent hours getting the old control arm and ball joint off, and the new ones can't get installed because the brake knuckle -ball joint - control arm parts are at least an inch apart. I have no idea how to close the space to get them together without disassembling the whole axle (which is what the manual would suggest doing in the first place!). I don't even understand what has pushed the wheel axel out an inch from the control arm in the first place. What is the disconnect with this Autodoc video that makes this look like a 15 minute job?
     
  10. prius_deep

    prius_deep Member

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    You will be very happy if, you go out and buy a ‘ratcheting tie down’ 14ft ((<- harbor freight) or where ever),

    especially for the passenger side.

    Just be sure to spin it a little back and forth; to make certain the teeth are aligned as you slowly ratcheted the part back in place!
     
    George W likes this.
  11. J Conner

    J Conner New Member

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    From what I am hearing, I'm not up for the passenger side unless I can see some actual damage to the old control arm! The drivers side arm was just fine. 15 years old, and looks great. I may not even do the passenger side ball joint if it has no visible damage to the rubber boot. So in reference to the Autodoc video, my mechanic said the axle can actually move out away from the engine during this work, and may need to be forced back inward to close the gap I have now between the brake assembly and the ball joint/control arm. The old ball joint took so many whacks to get loose, I can believe this is the problem. Good suggestion on the ratcheting tie-down. I have one and will try it out. I will try to take and post some pics.
     
  12. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

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    Get the alignment down then you'll know the condition of the passenger control arm. Mine had only micro cracks but the problem was it sagged with weight so alignment couldn't be set properly. Visual condition doesn't tell you. I never did the ball joints but they should be done. There good enough for alignment though.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  13. J Conner

    J Conner New Member

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    Getting the axle back in place is not working out so far....may have to remove the brake rotor and get the axle completely loose from the knuckle assembly. The ratchet tie down doesn't seem to have enough force to compress the axle back inward. IMG_6489.JPG IMG_6493.JPG IMG_6494.JPG
     
    #13 J Conner, Feb 15, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  14. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

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    You sure you don't need to turn the axil to align it to reinstall?

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  15. prius_deep

    prius_deep Member

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    I agree with audiodave, like I said.. “spin it a little back and forth” ← [the axle]; see you have a mallet, use a rubber one. Try manhandling [toward the front and back of car {maybe with the rubber mallet if needed} ] it, it will [should] go in.

    but don’t forget to keep manhandling and spinning it a little back and forth to align it[the axle] and the teeth BOTH, while using the strap. It will [should] pop back in place.

    your teeth might be butting, or axle is in a bad angle, it gets move a lot when doing this job!

    of course make certain the arm is down and out of the way.

    good luck.
     
    #15 prius_deep, Feb 16, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  16. prius_deep

    prius_deep Member

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    I know how frustrating it can be, so think about this, you may have to use a jack to rise the axle – remember the shock is pushing the axle down right now.
    If you have another strap, see if you can find points on the car to use the other strap; use that strap to rise the axle/shock, into the right angle.
     
    George W likes this.
  17. prius_deep

    prius_deep Member

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    [loosen the tie down and read on]

    [at the time of the driver side I did not have the ratcheting tie down]

    Some more rumblings aimed at you J Conner, when I was doing this job I was just trying to get it done (like you?!) so all step and order of those steps is lost to me, but I do remember I used crowbars from again HFT set of three different sizes around, to get screws and holes to line up. That center hole for the screw is key. Use that hole and a crowbar or other round steel item to get that connected, as your doing that the parts should/might fall into place. [crowbars and ratcheting tie down should help greatly]

    Use one crowbar to align the holes and another to push the arm down to help pop in the two screws.

    Another possibility is that the axle is already in place, just saying.
     
  18. prius_deep

    prius_deep Member

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    harbor freight tools 'crowbars' ; cents for scale.


    crowbars.JPG
     
  19. J Conner

    J Conner New Member

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    Thanks again for the pointers! Ready to laugh or cry at this point. Yes, you were both right - spin the axle. This was easier to do than I thought once the lug nuts were loosely set on the rotor. It didn't even need any inward force. Lying on the floor and rotating the wheel assembly with right hand, I could visibly see the ball joint close the gap to the control arm, and used a Harbor Freight crowbar to hold the control arm down so the ball joint threads could get into the holes in the arm. Never felt anything loose or misaligned. I was trying to force the axle back inward when all it needed was spinning to the correct position. BTW, the mechanic thought this would never go together while I had installed the ball joint to the knuckle. He was 100% certain the parts would not fit back again unless I attached the ball joint to the control arm first.
     
    audiodave likes this.
  20. audiodave

    audiodave Active Member

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    I replaced my control arms without ball joints. Don't understand why the mechanic thought that.
    Now time for a alignment.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    Landon51 likes this.