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How to test hybrid battery?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by kkeane, May 17, 2015.

  1. kkeane

    kkeane Junior Member

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    I am reasonably certain that the traction battery in my 2005 Prius is failing (among other problems, some of which might well be caused by the failing battery). Not surprising after 300k miles.

    My main question here is: is there a way to test the hybrid battery with DIY means? I'd hate to buy a replacement battery, and then find out that it was a different problem, after all.

    I am trained as an electrical engineer, so I'm somewhat (but not completely) comfortable with working around the high voltage, as long as I know what to pay attention to to keep safe, and where to attach a voltmeter.

    Also, some of the companies offering battery replacement seem to be fly-by-night, while others look like they might be reliable. I have seen some brand names for aftermarket parts (Doorman and A1 Cardone), too. Any tips for identifying a reliable company?

    Symptoms are: battery spends a lot of time with a single red bar, and the only time I ever get it to green is after a trip 4000 feet down my mountain. The battery also doesn't power the car for as long as it used to. Recently, the car also started reporting problems with the ABS system (discussed in another thread here). Voltages on the 12V system are normal both when parked (12.4V) and in IG-ON (13.8V).

    No battery-related dashboard lights.
     
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    If I had a car with 300k miles and a weak (not failing battery), I would not put a new battery in. I would (probably) invest in a grid charger for $500 and make the battery last longer.

    If and when the car decides to die, I will still have the grid charger and reuse the harness (if it's worth the trouble for $100) and put it in another Prius......or sell it.
     
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  3. kkeane

    kkeane Junior Member

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    Thanks! Yes, I looked at that option, and decided against it for various reasons. My question is specifically about how to test the battery, and then further decide.
     
  4. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    If it's not throwing a code, it's doing everything within the specs set by Toyota. If it were not operating within the parameters set, it would throw a code.

    So it seems you already know your options
     
  5. kkeane

    kkeane Junior Member

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    Well, the car is clearly performing below specs, so some component has gone bad even though according to the codes, all components are "within specs". I have reason to believe that it's the traction battery, so that's what I'm looking to confirm.
     
  6. Aaron Vitolins

    Aaron Vitolins Senior Member

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    to me it doesn't sound exactly like a failing battery (very well could be though! !) because most failing batterys quickly go to 10 green bars, like after 2 stop lights quick! Yikes. Anyway, the engine might not be performing properly hence the drained battery. Have you ever cleaned the HV battery cooling fan? Also check the 12 volt battery.
     
  7. Aaron Vitolins

    Aaron Vitolins Senior Member

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    Also! What causes the battery to go to 1 bar? Is this city streets, hills, sitting in "ready" mode?
     
  8. kkeane

    kkeane Junior Member

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    My symptoms may well be different from most people's because of my driving pattern (I live at 4000 ft and commute almost daily to sea level and back).

    But your remark of "doesn't sound like a failing battery" is exactly why I'd like to find a way to be reasonably sure before investing in possibly the wrong repair.

    My benchmark for the battery going to the single red bar is my trip home. When I first moved here about two years ago, the battery would hold up just about to the top. Today, it gets to the single red bar around 1000 ft; the rest of the way, the ICE has to pull the car on its own. On more or less flat ground (within San Diego), the battery rarely ever reaches more than about three to four bars.

    Now that you mention the "reaches green quickly", I think I may have that, but haven't paid much attention to it. The last five miles or so to my home are mostly downhill, and from the peak (where the battery is always at a single bar) to my home, that's enough to charge it to five or six bars. Going down the 4000 ft incline seems to charge it to roughly the same level, but then charging seems to slow down, and I reach green only later than I'm used to.

    And, yes, the engine is having a few issues, too, but they started mostly after the battery charges. I attributed them mostly to the engine having to work harder than it used to.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you can buy toyota tech stream software and mini vci to connect to a windows 7 device to analyze your battery health.
     
  10. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. I understand that no warning lights are on.
    2. Yes, it is reasonable that your traction battery is declining in capacity. If all 28 modules are wearing evenly then there is no reason for the traction battery ECU to log a fault.
    3. Your daily commute from 4K feet to sea level is certainly stressful to the battery health.
    4. I suggest you first make sure that the engine is properly maintained. For example, the iridium spark plugs should be in good condition and the engine air filter should be clean. There should be no faults with the exhaust system such as a clogged catalytic converter.
    5. Given no issues found with 4 above, it would be reasonable for you to replace the traction battery if you feel that the driveability symptoms are intolerable.
    6. A real traction battery test would require you to assess the Ah capacity of the battery. A new battery has capacity of 6.5Ah. So you could place a load (for example, 120VAC incandescent lamps wired in a series-parallel arrangement to result in a 1A current draw) across the battery, measure current flow to the lamps, and see how long it takes the voltage to decline to nominal voltage of 201.6V (28 modules * 7.2V / module). Multiply the elapsed time by the average current flow over that time (compare the starting current to the ending current and take an average of the two, or log the current every 15 minutes and take an average of those readings to be more precise if you feel like it) and that will be the Ah produced by the battery.

    You can start with the battery force-charged to 8 green bars which corresponds to an ~80% state of charge. I suggest you do your own research to decide how low you are willing to allow the traction battery voltage to get, before you stop the test. If the voltage gets too low then the battery will not start the Prius. Then you get to rig up a high voltage charger to recharge the battery - which is not the most difficult thing to do.
     
    #10 Patrick Wong, May 17, 2015
    Last edited: May 17, 2015
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  11. kkeane

    kkeane Junior Member

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    Thank you, Patrick. Your expertise is a godsend!

    The spark plugs were replaced about 20k miles ago, and didn't help with the problem. I just replaced the engine air filter. But the exhaust system is in bad shape, so that might be it. The catalytic converter had been plugged up for probably 50k miles at least, and I had got the P0420 (IIRC) code. We live in an area where the car doesn't need to get smogged every two years, so I considered this low priority.

    The engine was also burning oil (around a quart every 1000 miles or so). In fact, I had considered having the engine rebuilt.

    When my "battery" problem started, I did notice several engine-related things around the same time. I assumed that they were a result of the battery going bad and the engine working harder than normal, but of course it could also be the other way round.

    1) the DTC code disappeared.
    2) Smell of exhaust outside the car (and inside if I have the fan on)
    3) Strangely enough, the engine is no longer burning oil.

    The engine is now also knocking when I push it too hard. Switching to 91 octane and going slower helps.

    On flat ground, the car drives like normal, except for the low battery.
     
  12. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Given your post #11, my emphasis would be on fixing the engine and exhaust system issues first if you plan to keep the car. I agree that it is more likely that poor engine output is causing the traction battery issues.
     
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  13. kkeane

    kkeane Junior Member

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    Thank you! And it seems entirely possible that the engine issues might even be responsible for my ABS issue, too (I asked about that in another thread). Thanks!
     
  14. Aaron Vitolins

    Aaron Vitolins Senior Member

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    I have actually seen other people with similar situations due to a clogged cytalytic converter, due to oil consumption. you're battery is probably in better shape then you think.
     
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  15. kkeane

    kkeane Junior Member

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    That is good news. It did not even occur to me that the catalytic converter might have such consequences!
     
  16. Aaron Vitolins

    Aaron Vitolins Senior Member

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    Have you done anything to try to slow the oil consumption? Like change the pcv valve, oil additives for stuck piston rings? (I tell people to put some Marvel mystery oil in their oil 1000 miles before changing it)
     
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  17. kkeane

    kkeane Junior Member

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    The only things I did, on recommendation from my oil changer guys, was switch to 10W30 and use their high-mileage additive.
     
  18. OutDoorsKC

    OutDoorsKC New Member

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    kkeane,
    Did replacing the catalytic converter fix your problem? The description you gave about your car sounds like the same as I am seeing with mine except, I am at 220,000 miles :) And I just starting seeing the hybrid battery problem today.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome!
    if you're not getting any dash lights, you can try grid charging, but the battery is probably on its last legs.
     
  20. Andyprius1

    Andyprius1 Senior Member

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    When you changed the engine air filter, did you also clean out the air intake walls and sensor? An enormous amount of dirt build-up occurs there and causes strange symptoms. Excuse my terminology as I have forgotten the correct name of the air intake.