How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

When Volt is in Reverse, MGb will have negative RPM while consuming electricity.

So you can have ICE propelling at positive RPM and MGb propelling at negative RPM.

 

General Motors Receives EPA

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Couldn't delete this post that I see as I wanted to later put this in it's own thread.

 

Wow you are stretching it to find a supporting point for your wierd argument about direction of RPM..

However I'm fairly sure that is NOT true, The ICE is only coupled directly when in high-efficiency mode which I doubt you can get to in reverse. It would be in serial-hybrid if the ICE was running. But I've never experimented to see if I can get into two-motor CS-mode in reverse. Probably need to be doing -40mph or so.

 

I can't imagine someone at a car company letting that code through. I would suspect the speed is governed lower than 50 for safety. There should not be a mode in reverse that you need to figure out how to add negative torque from the ice. The prius is not powered by the ice in reverse, I can't image a reason the volt should be.

 

My 2011 Volt with the famous 2011 software update which happened in the Fall when range was dropping anyway and people were concerned about it. Today it was 64F on my way to an event and I got 48.7 electric miles on the battery. No climate controls needed because of temp. 35-45 MPH with a lot of stoplight (which I don't think were good - stop/start acceleration kW usage)

Notice that my ICE/gas_generator mileage was pretty good as well. 39.7miles / 0.79 gal of gas = 50MPGused. Yes, the ICE stopped/started multiple times.

 

21-Mar-2012 12:02 pm -
http://priuschat.com/forums/toyota-...ing-in-electric-vehicle-mode.html#post1501970

See blue above. In general it looks like the Volt will use a lot less gas. The main goal for the Volt was to drive on electricity at 1/5th | 1/6th the cost. I went 260+ miles last week and used NO gas.

 

It is very interesting reading some of the Toyota Prius Plug-in - PriusChat Forums threads now.

The PiP owners are 'gushing' over it the same way Volt owners do and LOVING driving in EV mode. Now they see why we like the Volt so much. Even past negative Volt folks love the PiP it seems.

 

owners-manual-pip-out
http://priuschat.com/forums/toyota-prius-plug-in/103349-owners-manual-pip-out-2.html#post1468311

 

What's up with the gasoline anxiety? Please stop spreading your fear of using gas.

Using gas for more range is acceptable for the Volt? What's wrong with using gas for more power or heat? What is the difference? Use it when it makes sense.

How much less gas would the Volt save? How much more electricity would it consume? That is the ultimate comparison.

On the topic of comparison, Volt computes and displays "Gallons Saved" against a 26.5 MPG compact non-hybrid. Prius PHV does it against the 50 MPG in HV mode running on gas.

To really compare, Volt gas saving should be compared against the same 50 MPG.

 

The Volt/PIP computer should be programmable to compare it against the vehicle it replaced.

 

In reading many of the PiP owner threads and post they are pretty thrilled with running on EV as much as possible and were a little "sad" when the ICE kicked on (MPG display drops and white EV car disappears). This is exactly the thrill the Volt owners have and now they can relate.

I think the various facts on when the PiP needs/chooses to use gas or canot use EV also point out how difficult and complicated the issues are with making a "EREV".

Quite curious how Volt-bashing points and bashers are giving the PiP a pass for many of the exact same things.

 

IDK but it does seem to be contagious:

 

Scotts comments resonate with those that want to use a little gas a possible. If I felt there was nothing wrong with using gas for power or heat, I'd be driving a Porche or a BMW. Furthermore, the Prius does not really use gas for power, it uses gas to allow it to reduce the cost of the car. The Volt is far more powerful with much better acceleration without using any gas.


Since I brought my volt home last august I've gone 5645 miles on 23.1 gallons of gas. A prius would have used 89 gallons or nearly 4times a much gas, and provided less power. My estimate for a PiP on my commute is it would have used 78 gallons, or only 3.3x as much gas as the Volt. Some folks may have such a short daily usage that the PiP will be more efficient for them, but not here. The PiPs advantage are that its bigger and cheaper and gets better milage on the infrequent very long trip.

Once again you are mud-sling with false data -- do you work for Faux News. The Volt does not compute and display "gallons saved" in any manner.

 

I wonder why GM never brought up a good hybrid by that point of view...

 

IIRC, the Prius is currently designed not only to reduce the cost of the car, but also, at that time, only had NiCad/NiMH Battery technology. At the same time, the electric motor is governed or not as powerful due to the lack of the power from the battery pack. Another reason that it uses the Parallel system is because of some of the requirements from the States, such as California, which was to have a specific warranty on the drive train.

Now mind you, Chevy has had a 10 year or so gap on their development of the Volt since the EV1 and is adopting Lithium Ion battery packs and has also suffered a setback from the belief that the battery ignited at the NHTSA, adding to the FUD for it. The price tag of the car was also a major disappointment when it came out as well.

Personally, I just feel that the car is just entering a still fluctuating time. It will still have uncertainty given it is only a couple of years old and the price tag is a bit high in comparison to the Prius. While it is a purely electric car with a gasoline range extender, there will still be 'hold outs' just like there was with the Prius, after all, while there is a lot of Prius Hybrids, and there are now some other non-gas type cars like the Tesla, the Leaf and the Fisker-Karma... Just in my area alone, I see a lot of gas SUVs, Trucks, sedans and only a smattering of hybrids/electrics out there. This is not counting commercial trucks and I live in Santa Barbara... Not Los Angeles or any big city, this is a TOURIST TRAP city...

So right now, I would say the price tag is the big ding (regardless of the incentives, don't forget, even a $7500 incentive is not going to be $7500 cause you do get dinged for an inhouse charger if you want to hold the other charger for other locations). For me, the dash is not as what I would like, but also I still lean towards the Prius v due to the space which would probably be a reason for others or why they are holding onto their SUVs, Trucks, Vans.

And again, from my own experience, a lot of people prefer the 'familiar'. I am in IT... I have to fight with people still running on Windows XP because of software they prefer using. The major thing about people is that if it 'works' they want to keep it that way. It's about keeping it simple and again a change to the norm takes a while for people willing to change or accept it.

 

Prius c has it. For a plugin hybrid, the gallon saved should be compared against it's own gas engine. That means Volt has to compute against 37 MPG, not against a compact non-hybrid.

 

Aren't you the master of putting things out of context?

John has no clue about his next gas refill doesn't mean he is afraid of using gas for more power.

 

I think they are expressing "wants" but doesn't want to give up the "needs" such as midsize interior with 5 seats and lower cost and others such as lower emission, shorter recharge time, proven reliability, simple design without clutches, etc.

Volt owners want more EV range for sure, perhaps Leaf's range. However, there is a need to go longer range per charge/refill so you end up the Volt.

I think Prius PHV owners have their priority straight and do not give into the EV purity desire.

Prius PHV was NOT marketed as EREV. It was marketed as a plugin Prius. What's there to bash if it works and performs as advertised?

 

Nothing wrong with wanting to use as little gas as possible. The question is how much electricity is required? Volt doesn't track it nor the owners. Electricity is being treated as free and generates no emission.

There is cause and effect. What is the effect of using as little gas as possible? When does it reach the point of diminishing return? What if it takes more energy to run with electricity than the energy saved from gasoline? Does the cause justify the effect?

Using gas for power not only reduces the cost of the car. It also reduce weight and keep the gas engine at 50 MPG. The chief engineer said more battery would add more weight and hurt the fuel economy. As mentioned before, keeping the same interior volume was also a requirement.

So the ultimate question is... how much gas is saved by compromising interior volume, add cost, hurt gas MPG, use more electricity and increase the recharge time?

 

In my case about 15.8 barrels over the past year compared to a 50 mpg prius.

I have displaced those barrels with what is now home generated solar electricity.