Humble request of older drivers

I guess I'm getting to the age when I'm forgetful but I drafted this post an hour ago and thought I'd hit the Submit button however just brought up PriusChat and no post. Perhaps I should be asking if my ISP should pull my contract or maybe Danny will set an age limit as to posting.
Anyway my post suggests that this whole thread is as a result of someone suffering from a combination of dystychipobia and gerontophobia. :lol:

 

Connecticut is on a 4 year renewal cycle, with some optional shorter cycles for seniors.

I've renewed while wearing my glasses! I don't recall anything on the renewal app that asks those things, but I certainly think it would be a good idea.

 

Hey, look. I said I would never drive without either glasses or contacts. If the DMV wants to give me a full vision test or even at least ask me about my vision at renewal time, they are more than welcome to do so.

 

Read this article:

Old may not be wise in driving

 

IAP.... that article reads like something a lawyer would refer to .... select a few cases and put that before a jury to see how much the smell settles. It's not worth reading.... you are capable of a better rebuttal than that. 8)

 

Any study is going to involve examples. Are you disputing the truth of anything in this article? Do you disagree that a slowdown in reflexes and deterioration of agility, vision and hearing come with age?

I guess that if one cannot articulate an intelligent response based on facts and science, attacking lawyers will divert attention from the issue at hand.

I vividly remember the Santa Monica Farmers' Market tragedy in which Mr. Weller, then 87 years old, killed ten innocent people as he mistook the gas pedal for the brake pedal while fleeing from a minor property damage only hit and run accident.

 

It's just that I would expect you to provide something more substantial than that link provided.

That incident in Santa Monica, while a tragedy, could equally have been caused by a 40 year old with a heart attack.

That age slows down reflexes etc, it a fact of life and so is the fact the reflexes are slowed down by alcohol and drugs. Young people today who wear earphones or have the volume of their music devices turned up beyond reasonable levels also become a problem.

Vision , uncorrected in aging folks can cause problems if driving , but it is also a problem for non "aging" individuals as well.

I just looked at your profile and realized you declare yourself a lawyer, should have guessed that after noticing the latin phrase at the bottom. So that is why you are so sensitive when someone brings up the word "lawyer". I should have used a politician to see how many of them I could scare up.

 

Galaxee, your experience seems typical, not only of my own history but that of both my daughters in the early phases of our driving careers. Until you experience one or two collisions, you don't really know how to drive defensively. You have to learn the hard way how absolutely unreliable EVERY other driver on the road is, and make allowance for them to ALWAYS do the wrong/unexpected thing.

 

Wow. Lots of emotion on this one. Road rage on the information highway. We are all "maturing", right? No one is exempt. Really. Could we iterate a social and behavioral model in which various states and times of life are validated on thier merit instead of being ridiculed as somehow inferior to ones (current) own?
Every person has times of confusion and error. Every person has put others at risk.
I see a parallel in this "mine is better" banter to posts and chats by Hybrid-haters who want to protect thier investment in other modes and technologies by fouling the waters around Prius. Good people responding to perceived threat ?
I think so, mostly.

Watts D. Hour

 

In my case, it's frustration rather than rage and that, from my perspective, is almost entirely due to governmental inaction and the attitude of certain physicians who, I presume, believe they're protecting the rights of their patients (perhaps an overly broad reading or misunderstanding of HIPAA or something).

Surprisingly, at least to me, is the fact that there's very little, if anything, one can do to get a family member, whether age 21 or 91, off the road after it becomes clear said family member presents a threat to him or herself and others. My only point here is that needs to change.

I mean, when you have one immediate family member who thinks it's no big deal to drive a car while under the influence, another with a host of medical issues, including severely impaired hearing, vision, and reflexes, and both (one in his mid 80's and the other 93+) staunchly refuse to stop driving, it tends to get a little disconcerting. Such is particularly the case when you come to the striking realization that, short of absconding with their keys or concealing their cars, you're totally at the mercy of their own judgment (which, by continuing to drive on a daily basis in their present condition, they demonstrate a severe lack thereof).

In my state, the only recourse is a full-blown police investigation or certification by a licensed physician. The former yields nothing as this situation is given short shrift; unless it arises to the severity of a "Weller scenario", they're not interested in putting in the "man hours" required to investigate. The latter is typically met with an eery silence as if to say, "I'm busy with patients, not familiar with the procedure, and, btw, where's my fee in this"? So, the traffic citations keep getting issued and dismissed, the accidents are reported and nothing is done, the invoices from body shops get paid out of their own pockets and then get concealed.....but not concealed well enough, the insurance companies keep renewing policies, and, hence, the daily cruises down city streets and highways continues.

The system, IMHO, is just plain broken.

 

Tag,
I completely agree with you that there should be a system to trigger the removal of dangerous, or potentially dangerous, drivers from all highways and byways. Perhaps the solution may be in a technology built into every vehicle which can keep a running evaluation of a specific driver's reaction time, excessive speeding over posted maximums ( and under minimums), use of inappropriate drugs and alcohol, impacts with objects etc. Perhaps even voice recognition which would detect the verbal component of road rage. :roll:

 

In California, it is illegal do drive while under the influence of alcohol or drugs (including prescription medications that affect the ability to safely operate a motor vehicle) and while wearing headphones and to have the sound system in the car so loud that it would interfere with the ability to drive safely (I wish that the police would be more vigilant on enforcing the latter).

It is not against the law to drive while being old. Due to the normal aging process (I know, I am not a spring chicken myself), one's ability to drive safely is adversely affected. It is not unreasonable to require a physical exam as a condition of renewing one's operator's license, after a driver reaches certain age at which there is scientific consensus of a reasonable likelihood of problems in safely operating a motor vehicle.

One has nothing to do with the other. It is the moto of the school that my child attends, which expresses my outlook on life.

 

I think you brought up a key issue here: although a law may exist that prohibits or severely restricts such activity, the enforcement of such a law is so lax or inconsistent that it really doesn't amount to anything.

 

back in 1984 i got a ticket for wearing headphones while driving in Riverside, CA so i can say from experience that some cops enforce it.

 

OK, how about this:

An arcade type computer game that tests and measures the response time of the player. The video would simulate driving situations (there are many such games played for fun) but this would give you a personal summary of your qualifications to drive on the open road.

I think much of this issue is based on the tendancy of the individual to be "in denial" of his/her shortcomings. By having the data presented privately to the player/testee, at least one would be forced to face the facts and left to the pressure of his/her own conscience.

(Might also be a good gadget to install in restaurants and bars to predetermine who is or is not "under the influence" before the drive home.)

 

Canuck,

I strongly suggest that you check the following sites, since you did not seem to care for the article that I linked last night:

Elderly Drivers - Loyola University Health System

NHTSA - Young Drivers in Fatal Crashes

 

IAP. He who thinks he can......
The Loyola piece just states basically that more older drivers are becoming involved in accidents. Yes, there are more older people remaining alive longer for many reasons and therefore as the % of population of older folks increases then there will be an increase of that age group involved in accidents. The rest of that reference is pertaining to deaths of old persons in accidents. What the second link has to do with my postings I don't know .... I think you are confusing me with someone else. Now try not to be personal in your posts inferring that I am not intelligent. That would not be the Prius way of conducting oneself here at PriusChat. I explained in a previous post that I was unaware that you were a lawyer until I looked up your profile after receiving your reply. I will, in future, use politicians to make my point. ( Until one of them reacts in a rude manner and then I'll have to find another group)
I think you should just direct your attention elsewhere because as I've said in a previous post you will never convince me that a specific age should trigger a test of one's ability to drive and that is the essence of my argument. QED

 

There already is one. It's called Gran Turismo and it's been available since the Playstation around mid 1990s. Its current incarnation is Gran Turismo 4 on the PlayStation 2 which just came out February, 2005.

Gran Turismo is built by people (Polyphony) that used to build computer simulations of car accidents for insurance companies so they're very good at it and the game is very close to being representative of driving a real car on real roads.

Gran Turismo includes a series of "License Tests" that the player must pass before they're allowed on the various race tracks with rankings of B, A, international A.

The B test tests the basics of accelerating, braking, cornering, eg maneuvering, a normal street level car at normal (20mph - 60mph) speeds. These tests might be comparable with the average European, or not-USA, driving license.

MOST people driving on the street today would have trouble getting a B license, but IMHO, nobody should be allowed to drive without being B competent.

The white elephant in the room here is USA driving tests are a joke. Anybody can walk in, fill in the dots on the written test, show they can start and move a car, and DONE.

If they tested drivers to European or this game's B-license level, many drivers today would fail, but those that pass would be very competent drivers under many road conditions. It took myself a while before I was B-license competent, and I was already driving for a few years in the "real world".

However, chances are fat & slim that the USA would upgrade DMV tests to prevent accidents and deaths due to driver incompetence or inability to handle their vehicle in extreme-ish conditions where driving skill matters. It would kick too many current drivers, and older folks, with slow reaction abilities off the road.

Testing to the bar we currently put airplane pilots to before they get out into the public is probably asking to much.

So back to survival of the fittest.

 

Actually it translates to:†They can because they think they can."

No, it states that the percent of elderly drivers who are involved in fatal accidents is increasing at a rate higher than the rate of growth of their percentage in the population.

No, I am not confusing you with anyone else. You used the legal profession in a derogatory manner to insinuate that the article I used to illustrate a point was not worth reading. You did not even know that I was an attorney at the time, yet you used the negative stereotype of attorneys to attack my point of view by stating I was capable of a better rebuttal (than a lawyer would present to a jury). I am not the one who questioned your intelligence. You are the one who insulted me. I was not rude to you.

Well if studies by the NHTSA (the basis for the Loyola article) and the IIHS will not convince you, nothing will.

 

IAP, so glad you returned .... my evening wouldn't be complete without more of your prose. Yes, I took liberty with your latin motto and did so intentionally.Latin, in my junior high school days, was not one of my successes. I think I scored the lowest that my teacher, Mrs Crowell, had ever witnessed, shall she RIP.
Sorry, I didn't realize that lawyers were a protected species.
I did spend the day on a ladder cleaning the siding on my house so think I will take a day off from our posting battle. Being over the age of 70, decided not to take the wife for a drive in the Prius in case my weariness might involve a youngster like yourself in an accident and become ammunition for your statistics.
Returning to the dead language, "damnat quod non intellegunt" "me iudice".
Hopefully we will find another topic to battle over since this OB is so stubbornly sticking to his opinion on this one.

Please lighten up..... stress is a killer. .


Illigitimus non carborundum est