HV Battery is Losing Charge Quickly

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Allen Cobbs, Aug 23, 2021.

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  1. Allen Cobbs

    Allen Cobbs New Member

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    I just got a replacement - reconditioned HV battery. It suddenly started losing it's charge quicker than it is gaining a charge in normal driving. It is not throwing a code until it gets extremely low and then it threw a P3190 (Poor Engine Power). My 2 year old battery was failing with a bad Hybrid Battery Code. I called the Company that put in the reconditioned battery and they are saying that since it isn't throwing a code it needs to be diagnosed by a shop before they will replace the battery they just put in a month ago. I can't see how diagnostics for this issue would be easy/inexpensive. They are saying it could be the inverter or the 12V Battery.

    I see the Green Charge Path at the bottom of the Energy Monitor much less than I see the Yellow Discharge Path at the bottom of the Energy Monitor. I charge the battery fully on the Energy Monitor and then drove 5 miles (60% Highway) and it discharged down to 3 bars total and the bars turned purple.
     
  2. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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  3. Allen Cobbs

    Allen Cobbs New Member

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    I am using the BlueDriver OBDII tool and Android App.

    I feel that reading the Dynamic Data while the Vehicle is running would be helpful but I am not at all skilled with that type of analysis.

    I did just drain and refill the Inverter Coolant. I let the bleeder run air bubble free for about 2 minutes.

    I feel like the Code was the result of how quickly the Traction Battery is draining and it got down to possibly below one bar on the Energy Monitor. Last night I charge the battery (put the vehicle in Drive and push the accelerator to see the Green Charging path on the Energy Monitor) all the way to all green bars on the Energy Monitor. This morning it was still fully charged. My 2 mile drive to work depleted the charge down to 3 bars half way to my destination. I supplemented the charge by engaging the accelerator while stopped at a couple of the lights.

    Am I focused on the wrong thing. Could the lack of charging be caused by the things suggested in the DTC - P3190? I do think that the Engine Coolant could be running hot. Just not sure how that would effect the charging system.
     
  4. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    @Allen Cobbs

    You have to look at it this way....

    The code you have indicates poor engine power, not poor motor power. The engine running properly is what keeps the battery charged properly. If the engine isn't running correctly, how can the battery function correctly?

    The HV battery serves as the source of power to spin the transaxle, which in turn spins the engine to make it start, similar to a starter motor on a normal internal combustion engine car. Then the HV battery is controlled by the car ecus to either charge or discharge to help the car stay at its most efficient. Again, if the engine isn't doing it's proper share, the battery can't make up for it except for a few minutes.
     
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  5. Allen Cobbs

    Allen Cobbs New Member

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    So, I am not trying to be difficult. You have both given me good information. I am just troubled by the fact that I only got the P3190 error once. And that is when the Traction Battery got down to 1 bar on the Energy Monitor (I think it might have dipped below 1 bar, it dropped at least 2 bars when I started to drive) .

    If I am having Engine Performance Issues shouldn't I be throwing a P3190 code more than once and in different situations?

    Again, the Battery discharged 7 bars in a 2 mile drive and no codes were given.
     
  6. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    Ideally you would have your car looked at by a shop that is experienced with the Prius. They could look at data from the engine and hybrid control ecu's while driving to see if either is abnormal. If the ICE has problems then it will show up in the data- it just might not be quite enough to set the P3190. Likewise they could monitor the HV battery , maybe perform a capacity test like the DrPrius app.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  7. Allen Cobbs

    Allen Cobbs New Member

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    Does the DrPrius App look at ECU & ICE data as well?

    I am having trouble trusting Dealers and Hybrid Shops. From what I have read Dealer Shops are very lazy about Troubleshooting and lean toward replacing expensive items rather than doing an in-depth analysis and research to see if I really need a $2500 HCU that will cost $2000 to install (Had two Ford Escapes that were an absolute nightmare abut giving good data and instead receiving expensive repairs). I know the Prius is better at giving dat but what if in my situation it is not? I shouldn't be weary of Hybrid Technicians but I currently am hyper-sensitive to their troubleshooting techniques.

    My personal Troubleshooting skills are more toward PC's and Main Frame Computers. One of the main lessons I learned was "has anything changed or was anything new installed". I have a different Reconditioned Hybrid Battery from July 7th, 2021. And now it is rapidly losing charge. It could be the ICE but it is difficult for me to look past the fact that I just got a replacement Hybrid Battery.
     
  8. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Give Dr Prius, or Torque 'lite' a test run, then report the stored (current) OBD2 codes (DTCs) here for additional guidance.

    Many will use a "mini-vci" cable and a copy of "techstream" (dealer technician diagnostic software) to retrieve the OBD2 codes.
     
  9. Allen Cobbs

    Allen Cobbs New Member

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    Okay,

    So, I have installed DrPrius and There were no stored codes. The only codes I have had is when the Energy Monitor in the Prius got down to below 1 bar (the bar stayed up but I could tell it had discharged beyond the 1 bar). That was a P3190 (again, never got this code when the battery was not fully discharged).

    I did the following and the Battery still discharges very quickly at times;

    Cleaned Throttle Body
    Replaced Mass Air Flow Sensor
    Replace Radiator
    Replaced both Radiator cooling fans
    Replaced cooling fan thermal switch
    Replaced Inverter Cooling Pump
    Had cooling System bled by Hybrid Tech with proper software
    Had PCM software Recalibrated (upgraded)

    The Hybrid Tech told the Office Admin that the Hybrid Battery is good but I didn't get to talk with him or find out what type of test he ran. I don't even know if he ran diagnostics while driving. I am having trouble finding a Hybrid Tech I trust and I definitely don't trust the Dealerships.

    I started monitoring the battery while driving;

    I can see the Hybrid Battery Voltage go from 220 Volts to 190 Volts (often happens when accelerating quickly)
    I can see the Blade Voltage go down from 7.4V to 6V
    I can see the State of Charge go from 52 % to 45%
    All of these things happen in a second and turn that status Red
    I can see the left 2 bars at the bottom go red

    This all happens without throwing any codes!

    I did a short recording of one of the events. I can try to upload if you would like.

    The Hybrid Battery keeps its charge without any problems and I can charge it in 12 minutes if I am sitting with the brake on in Drive Mode and feathering the gas pedal.
     
    #9 Allen Cobbs, Sep 12, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
  10. Allen Cobbs

    Allen Cobbs New Member

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    FYI - My State of Charge went from 74% to 43% in less than a mile in a residential neighborhood with a 25 MPH speed limit and 3 stop signs. Not sure what kind of load that is putting on the battery or the engine. I can't see how this is not the Hybrid Battery?!
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that sounds pretty average for a reasonably healthy battery
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if you don't have a battery code, and your mpg's are decent, i wouldn't sweat it
     
  13. Allen Cobbs

    Allen Cobbs New Member

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    So, my Energy Monitor went from 8 Bars to 1 bar in one mile of residential driving and you are telling me not to worry? If I don't intervene this will go below these levels and throw a code that is not related to the Hybrid battery. All of the issues with that code have been addressed. My previous Batteries would NEVER go from 8 bars to 1 bar in one mile of residential driving!

    The Hybrid Battery Voltage level is going to 190 Volts with 25 MPH driving and you are saying this is normal?
     
  14. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Junior Member

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    What codes are thrown "if I don't intervene"? My Prius uses HV bat mostly during residential driving, and the ICE only starts when the bat gets to maybe 2 bars. So what you're seeing is not crazy unusual. Unless you're getting the codes you say you'll get, but don't because you intervene..
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i've never gotten more than a mile or so out of any of my prius batteries in residential driving. how far would your old batteries go?
     
  16. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Junior Member

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    Allen, with computer skills you will probably find Techstream very helpful. It's really good at digging deep into codes, and "sub codes". You can find mini VCI cables on Amazon. Hacks for Techstream, and techstream itself, can easily be downloaded. I fully agree with you that dealerships unless you know them well personally cannot be trusted. I'm also disappointed that Toyota doesn't stand behind their cars enough to provide free code read outs to owners. (That would be really nice, and unique, although sadly it would doubtless be abused)
     
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  17. Allen Cobbs

    Allen Cobbs New Member

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    I never saw my other batteries go below 4 bars, ever (my old batteries would throw a Hybrid Battery Code and the Triangle of Death). Just driving 1.5 miles to the Church where I work. I also saw it go from 6 bars to 1 on an urban highway, route 52 in Indiana (never saw that before either). Suddenly after a replacement battery is installed I have trouble with extremely quick discharges and everyone thinks it's something besides my battery.

    If you look at the Thread I have dealt with everything related to the P3190 code I have only gotten when the battery discharge below the 1 bar (it happened twice)

    Cleaned Throttle Body
    Replaced Mass Air Flow Sensor
    Replace Radiator
    Replaced both Radiator cooling fans
    Replaced cooling fan thermal switch
    Replaced Inverter Cooling Pump
    Had cooling System bled by Hybrid Tech with proper software
    Had PCM software Recalibrated (upgraded)
     
  18. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Junior Member

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    Nobody responding to your posts requesting help has an agenda. Maybe you got a bad "reconditioned" battery? You state "batteries" implying you have replaced batteries more than once? The place you got this last battery from is undoubtedly aware that reconditioned batteries are an inexact science - some you get many months out of, some you just get a few. So they are not going to make it easy for you to just say, hey I need another battery cos you sold me a dud.

    All the driving you have listed has been short trips. Hard to get much idea of what is going on with your systems.

    So, what happens when you start out in the morning?
    The HV battery shows a good number of bars. Does the ICE start?
    Does the ICE shut off at stops at lights or stop signs?
    If you park you car and leave it in Ready mode with the ICE running how long does it run before the ICE shuts off and the HV bat shows full?

    I think most of us here are trying to help you figure out if you have some kind of charging issue. Driving short residential distances or even 5 miles with 3 of those on highways isn't going to tell you much.

    You've replaced and repaired a lot of stuff on your car. Are you willing to buy a brand new battery and install it to test whether you're right it's bad "recon" battery? Will the company that sold you the "recon" battery come to you and test it? Can you go to them?
     
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  19. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    This is pretty unusual, since the car will often run the battery down to two purple bars before starting the engine to charge it back up to three bars again. This is one reason so many people use a prius for camping. The car will use the HV battery to run the AC and cycle the engine between 2 purple and 3 blue bars all night long on less than a gallon of gas.

    Take the car for a drive to get it fully warmed up. Park the car in your driveway(do not turn the car off), open all four windows and put the ac on MAX. Start measuring how long it takes until the engine starts. Watch the battery indicator. The engine should stay off until the HV battery drains down to two purple bars. Sometimes the purple may be present for a minute or two before the engine starts, because the 'start' is actually triggered by battery SOC % (~42%) not by purple bars.
     
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  20. Allen Cobbs

    Allen Cobbs New Member

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    I have started to make sure it is up around 7 bars when I park. I do this by leaving it in drive and feathering the gas pedal.

    When I start in the morning the ICE turns on and charges the Hybrid Battery for about a minute.

    At Stop lights the ICE doesn't stop but I don't see a charge going to the Battery (on the Energy Monitor or in DrPrius) unless I hold the brake and feather the gas pedal.

    Putting it in park I don't see the Hybrid Battery Charge while the ICE is running.

    I had a long drive on Route 52 when I noticed it went from 6 or 7 bars to 1 bar (that is when I started paying attention to the Energy Monitor and the quick discharges.

    Currently I only see charging when I am coasting and the ICE is running or if I am stopped and using the brake and the gas pedal together.
     
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