Hybrid owners going to pay more for registration?!?!?!

This sounds equivalent to add'l +1% property tax on Ca. registration fees, whereas Ca. residents already pay about 1% annual property tax (Ca. calls it CVT? ) on the car blue book value....they are saying increase the annual car value (property) tax to 2%.

Here's what it means:
Current "10-yr" Total car tax in Ca. (Prius) ~= 9% sales tax + 4.5% cumulative annual tax = 13.5% approx. total tax
Proposed "10-yr" Total car tax in Ca. (Prius) ~= 9% sales tax + 9.0% cumulative annual tax = 18.0% approx. total tax

So there is no specific penalty on a hybrid, but if you say hybrid cost is approx. +$5000 incremental, then the indirect hybrid penalty is $900 in the proposed case (18% of $5000) vs. $675 today.

What the proponent is saying is that hybrids cannot escape an annual property (car value) tax, in fact they get hit harder, so that's why they like it vs. increased gasoline tax (which Prii drivers smile at).

Virginia is worse...we only have 4% sales tax but our annual car value tax is quite large, resulting in a large defacto hybrid penalty. Then VA reduced gaso tax to near lowest in the USA so the hybrids could not recover the tax loss. In addition, the VA proponents wanted an add'l $64/yr add'l hybrid penalty, but that was nuts. In other words, these knuckleheads who run around saying hybrids are getting away with lower taxes, if these folks ever stopped to actually calculate/conduct a study to see what cars are paying the most taxes, at least in Va. I'm pretty sure hybrids are over-taxed.

 

In CA it is referred to as the Vehicle License Fee (VLF) and is currently based on the initial purchase price, declining gradually over about 10 years and then leveling out. However, over the last 15 to 20 years the rate has fluctuated, depending on who was in the governor's office. One governor faced recall over this issue, and that's when we got "Ahhnold" elected, because he promised to lower the VLF. Interestingly, my '91 Miata is $16, probably about the minimum, while my '02 Lexus is $51. I'm guessing the amount will stay the same, as of course the initial price of the Lexus was nearly five times that of the Miata. There are other fees added on to the bill, varying by county in some cases. The VLF is the only part that may be a federal income tax deduction.

 

...BTW the way Virginia solved the transportation money problem (we lowered gaso taxes) we increased sales tax selectively on the blue part of the state. This was win-win as Dems wanted higher taxes so they got it on themselves, and they were ecstatic that the Repubs did them the favor of increasing the taxes on the public in the blue part of the state.

 

In a somewhat related matter, starting January 1, 2015, Gas Buddy says that the California CO2 cap-and-trade regulations will start to make a bigger cost impact (+16 to 75 cents) at the pump.

California motorists likely to see sticker shock January 1 - Gasbuddy Gas Prices

 

Nope, I knew nothing of this. However, since cap and trade sounds like a scam, why should this come as a surprise?

 

Yep!!! Big A** Scam

 

I wonder if the other CARB states will be following? When AZ backed out of CARB, I believe it was the CO2 reductions that they did not want to commit to.

 

Sure sounds like Illinois.

 

The latest on cap and trade in NJ.
NJ Can't Scrap Cap-And-Trade Program Without Rulemaking - Law360

 

Exactly right. I purchased my Pip a few weeks ago, thought the removal of the fee had not taken place yet. The political party in office at the time this travesty of a fee was instated seemly wanted to punish hybrid owners for reducing their reliance on the party's campaign contributors (e.g., Exxon/etc).

 

Well I don't want to go off topic (this is CA thread) but we have a female Democrat delegate here in NoVA who used to be VA Sec. of Transportation, and she is highly supportive of hybrid fees...I just don't know what's her rationale... I would say in VA we had a few people both parties including the former Gov who had a anti-hybrid grudge. It was not a majority of either party, so it did not hold up.

 

For reducing carbon emissions, cap and trade is a market-based, cost-effective policy innovation, as it provides economic carrots and sticks to reach emissions targets. The US has actually been using cap and trade in SO2 emissions for decades;

http://web.mit.edu/ceepr/www/publications/workingpapers/2012-012.pdf

 

...the issue here as Arizona pointed out, this is CO2 cap and trade on a *state* level. If CARB wants to reduce smog unilaterally due to CA's special smog problem (and some other states) that seems like a basic human right for clean air to breathe. Once CARB moves into mandated CO2 reducion for global warming reasons, that's more a global issue rather than local air pollution issue, so some feel that type of regulation fits more as a Federal regulation. In the next several years, it'll be interesting to watch how the blue/CARB states meet their promises to unilaterally and substantially reduce CO2 emissions (re: CARB regs and power plant RPS renewable standards). My guess is some states will relax their targets. Since VA is not committing, I can only watch others states.

 

Which vehicle would you suggest, that has equivalent 5 seats, with similar passenger and cargo room?

It can be very easy to compare cost savings over time at fueleconomy.gov

 

Do you have a link to this?...

 

Nothing in the way of a link to the original post so far. The only thing I could find that even came (not very) close was the article I referenced in post #39 from the San Jose Mercury News. There have been some links to gas prices, but this had to do with registration specifically, per the first post in the thread.

 

Sorry, I have no information. I haven't researched such cars in years but I'm sure there are lots of them. I owned a Saturn years ago but they are no longer made and I wouldn't recommend them anyway. Of course only Prius has a built-in game

 

Well the usual suspects for comparison to Prius are Corolla, or if you want liftback, you got Matrix and Mazda 3 hatchback style. If you want a heads-up comparison of hybrid vs. non-hybrid you got Civic vs. Civic Hybrid and/or Camry vs. Camry Hybrid.

I think what is missing at FuelEconomy.gov is a state tax component, and how that impacts the comparison. I have a spreadsheet for 10-yr car taxes that works for many states including VA and CA, including the depreciation and annual car tax components.

 

None of these are comparable based on passenger and cargo room.

 

There are none that I'm aware of, especially when you consider full life cycle costs (e.g. a full 10 years). I'm happy to be proven wrong, of course, just list the specific models and we'll start from there.