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Hybrid Types ...for dummies

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by john1701a, Oct 11, 2005.

  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    ...
     
  2. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Those .jpgs are pretty small for any hope of having the
    text actually be readable... suggest leaving text as text, so
    it's also readable in non-gui browsers.
    .
    _H*
     
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    They're just a thumbnail, giving a small preview of the actual document.

    The PDF is the full-size version. You can download a copy of it for viewing & printing. A file in DOC format will be available later too.
     
  4. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    It looks MGs are driven by or generating at 201.6V, but they are not.
     
  5. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    A "for dummies" one-pager is not intended to show a great level of detail. Only the major components are included, just enough to symbolicly show a logical relation.

    So...

    What is your text or image suggestion?
     
  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Here's an interesting thought to ponder:

    Take a look at the Multi-Display. All 3 generations (since 1997) have shown the same thing... only 1 motor doing the role of both. There is no PSD either.

    Is that depiction a good idea now that the competition is attempting to simulate the abilities the "full" design actually delivers?
     
  7. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    What about charts of both engine types (well, to be fair, all existing hybrid models since they do vary greatly in power delivery) showing both output of the ICE and electric engines during acceleration and deceleration? That's far more useful than a picture of what the engine is.
     
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That's a really good idea for phamplet type educational handout, but not a single-sided piece of paper "for dummies" introduction. And I may in fact create that later too.

    But right now, there's a basic graphic and about 3 paragraphs worth of text. The audience is people that have no idea how an engine or transmissions works in the first place.

    In other words, it's for newbies and those providing introductions to hybrids.
     
  9. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    But those newbies really wouldn't know or understand how a full or partially full or assist type of hybrid would benefit them. Something that shows how power gets applied would. All they see is extra "stuff", especially with the full design.
     
  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    I suggest you read the text too (which is now complete), rather than just looking at the illustrations alone. Then show them to newbies, requesting in-person feedback... which I will be doing. Then show them to those that attend a gathering, requesting in-person feedback... which I will be doing.

    I've used the other educational documents heavily in the past, tweaking them afterward based on actual feedback from the intended audience.

    And where is your text or image suggestion? To be constructive, feedback must do more than just provide a complaint.
     
  11. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    John... I'm not complaining, I did provide a suggestion. You just don't like ideas if they're not yours. :rolleyes:
     
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Again, all we get just a vague response. But that was expected due to the prior resistance from any attempt to show the differences in hybrid designs.

    "Something that shows" could mean anything.

    Where's the actual text you would like to have included? Where's a description of how you'd like the image to look? Where is the any type of suggestion of how to proceed?

    Of course, even if the documents weren't accurate, they would be enough to accomplish the goal anyway... to inform newbies that there are differences. Most are under the impression that each brand is the same, not having any idea that they are so fundamentally different.
     
  13. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    John, I don't care about text. I want to see power output and curves. That says more than 10 volumes of the fluff text you use.
     
  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    How is that even the slightest bit helpful to a "for dummies" one-pager?

    In other words, this is yet another attempt to sabotage. So don't bother to reply, because I won't be checking. Every knows they can drop me an email or private message if they wish to share further comments anyway.
     
  15. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    How about combining wheels and 50kW motor together? Say make the circles of the wheels much bigger. In the inner circle, the text would say "50kW Electric Motor/Generator". In the larger outer circle (the area the smaller circle doesn't overlap) it would say "Wheels".

    Also mention about the reverse electric mode where a seperate gear isn't necessary.

    You might also want to make the arrow from ICE to PSD bi-directional since extra electricity can be dumped into the combustion engine for engine braking (B Mode).

    Add 07 Altima Hybrid and maybe Ford Fusion Hybrid to the full hybrid list.
     
  16. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    My suggestion is something like...
    http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/tech/environmen...age/what_04.gif

    Ken@Japan
     
  17. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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  18. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    Close. Actually MG2 is connected to the ring gear. The planetary carrier is connected to ICE. MG1 is connected to the sun gear.

    But you are correct about MG2/wheels being connected permenantly through a fixed gear ratio, which is why towing with front wheels down can be harmful. Even in Neutral, MG2 would be producing a 3 phase AC voltage to the inverter, but the inverter would simply ignore it in Neutral.

    As for the energy display, I manage to see 2 motors by considering MG1 part of the ICE in the display. When electrical energy is coming out of ICE, I think of it coming from MG1. Granted, in reality MG1 might be CONSUMING electrical energy, but the idea is there. Red arrows directly from ICE is mechanical energy going through the PSD via the planetary carrier, planetary gears and ring gear to the wheels.
    It gets deceptive in my interpretation when ICE runs to charge the battery at park. It shows energy going through the generator, which is MG2, but in reality, it is only MG1. Think of it then as only a pass through flow.

    Reference:

    http://home.earthlink.net/~graham1/MyToyot...PriusFrames.htm
    http://home.earthlink.net/~graham1/MyToyot...ng/Contents.htm
    soon moving to http://www.ecrostech.com/prius/original/PriusFrames.htm

    http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/tech/environment/ths2/hybrid.html