Hybrids v. Electrics... am I the only one who sees a major drawback?

And don't forget, this is Volt version 1.0 and Prius verison 3.0. Give it time. I doubt many of us would have bought Prius version 1.0.

 

Prius Gen 1 History:
2000: Available in Japan only
2001: My friend bought that model (No CC)
2002: I bought this one

165K miles and 7 years later, I got the Gen 3, 2010 model.

So there.

 

The car of the future is a bicycle.

 

Actually it's a tricycle.

 

Quite true. And this doesn't just go for drive tech - it goes for sedan/pickup/RV/motorcycle/sports cars. We have all those options for the people who want them.... let's get rolling with the EV option as well! Odd that some people think that I/we are trying to FORCE people to drive an EV. All I want is the option to buy and drive one thankyouverymuch.

A couple of things that I *have* to comment on. First, a 35-mile one-way drive plus side trips is NOT out of the range of current EVs. And if you toss in a relatively cheap charger at your end point, you have a huge distance buffer. Installing a charger once is a lot cheaper and easier than buying gasoline and tuneups and oil changes for the life of a gas car, that's for certain! And when you say that an EV is "not yet for an averalge Long Islander" I have to caution you not to assume that your specific situation is "average." It seems that we all fall into this trap at some point: If it won't work for me, it won't work for most people....

Indeed. Oh, and hey - as of yesterday, there's a new official EVnut ride in the stable!

Ouch. That hurt.

 

The way I understand how the Volt works is that once you has depleted the battery you use the gas engine to generate electricity for the motor, directly. You do not charge the battery, except with a small trickle charge, just like when regenerative braking.

3PriusMike

 

I bought the Gen I (will go for sale soon as child goes back to school)
Then my wife had to have the Gen II
Now I have a Gen III.

The Gen I is a great car still, just does not have as many tech features. The drive train is pretty much the same.

3PriusMike

 

No, I don't think that the ICE-generated electricity will always go through the battery. The battery comes off the same electrical "bus" and has a float trickle charge...all the power bypasses the battery and goes straight through to the motor. If the motor demands more power than the ICE can provide, the float charge is removed/reversed and power comes out of the battery.

This is quite different than, (to use a water analogy) filling a swimming pool with one hose while draining it with another. Rather, a hose is going by the pool to a motor and on its way has a small tee that can trickle fill the pool. If needed a small pump can reverse the flow out of the pool into the hose towards the motor. (For a real battery the flow is controlled via voltage levels). The distinction is important because the rate of charge/discharge of the battery and this efficiency really matter.

3PriusMike

 

Hmm. Interesting. Do we really know how this will work? Last I heard, there will be just a few discreet RPM settings for the ICE. I just can't see how that could work in your scenario - though with my limited knowledge of the system, I'm not saying you're wrong by any means!

 

Like this.

I was class valedictorian, homecoming king, athlete of the year and voted most likely to succeed.***


***Not bad for home schooled.

 

The Prius hybrid concept is tough to beat near term.

 

$2.5 BILLION in annual advertising. Say it enough and it becomes true, at least to a lot of consumers who don't actually research before purchase.

 

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And the answer is: Still on the drawing board, but probably a lot closer from 'disclosed' to 'shipped' than the Volt Besides, didn't you say you were going to Australia or New Zealand for a year? Probably better just park that Tesla S in my driveway for safe keeping

Seats SEVEN? Where?? Doesn't look long enough for a 3rd row nor wide enough for 4 across. Granny in a rocking chair on the roof??

Ooooh and a 5 minute battery swap (once the battery swap stations are all over the place). And a 300 mile range with 45 minute recharge solves a lot of problems. Though I suppose the 45 minute is high voltage, not something you can do at Grandma's.

Of course for a lot of us, the $50K price tag makes it a non starter.

 

Are you saying the gas engine CAN'T charge the battery, that once the battery is low, all the juice for the electric motor comes directly from the ICE with none going to the battery? Do you have a link, I've not seen this info.

If true, I agree, it is a really poor design. I had thought it would do as the Prius does - charge the battery when necessary, pull amps from both the ICE and battery if needed for load. Going to have to be one big sucker ICE generator if it has to be able to produce enough amps to run the car in all load conditions.

I prefer my design - leave the ICE out of the car: sell, lease or rent a generator on a trailer for those "I need to go more than 30 or 40 miles TODAY" trips Then make that space under the hood available for storage AND/OR extra - USER installable/removable batteries for more EV range when needed.

 

These are called "promotional rate" for now, wait till EV becomes "popular" you will no longer see these rates.
The night time off peak hours will become EV night time peak hours.

 

While I'm not saying it won't happen, this would be as foolish as using gasoline to drive a car.

EVs will benefit the grid - to the point where utilities could be paying for the lease of the battery and still come out ahead. Charging more for off-peak usage would be almost unbelievable. Balancing the grid benefits everybody and makes energy production (per kwh) cheaper and cleaner across the board.

 

Seats seven like a Volvo wagon can seat seven. Two youth seats looking backwards can be installed behind the hatch. The floor on this car is much lower than you'd expect since there is no exhaust system nor gas tank to get in the way. Still, calling it a seven seater is definitely a stretch.... and...

There's no hope of getting 300 miles of added range with a 45 minute recharge at this point. You have the option of a 300 mile pack, or you can recharge the smaller pack in (what they claim to be) 45 minutes. Yes, the advertising for the car has not been as up-front as I would have liked. It has gotten better with our barage of comments, but still not great.

For what this car promises to be, $50k will be a bargain - even if not in the reach of lots of consumers. The market for $50k+ vehicles is quite large. Just ask Lexus, Infinity, Accura, Volvo, Mercedes, etc. This is not and will not be targeted to the folks living from paycheck to paycheck!

 

The electric car is a great option for those that can afford two cars. In my particular case there are no draw backs to owning and using an electric car. My wife and I work close to each other so we commute together a total of 50 miles per day. Since the average electric car can travel 100 miles that would be a great option for us to use during the week when commuting and on our typical weekend shopping trips. In fact, about 90% of Americans commute about 30 miles per day, far within the distance you can travel in an electric car. Then for longer trips we'd use the hybrid car that can run on gas. For those of you with only one car and who travel longer distances you don't have any choice yet, unless the battery swapping stations open up here in the future. Battery swap is supposed to take 5 minutes (nearly the same as filling your gas tank). The swapping stations are opening in Israel and there may be plans to open them in California... I hope. Electric cars are much more efficient that gas based engines, converting about 90% of the energy stored in the batteries into power that drive the wheels. In contrast the average ICE car converts at best 35% of the energy from the gasoline burned into power that drive the wheels. Now you might think that, well, that electricity comes from something being burned, and that is true. BUT, big power plants are much more efficient at producing power than the internal combustion engine in your car. By using electric cars, the overall the amount of fuel burned is reduced, and the amount of pollution created is reduced.... especially when you can factor in the addition of wind, water and solar energy that contributes to the grid. It's a win - win situation in my humble opinion.

 

It's not true that the big power plants are MUCH more efficient than an ICE like the Prius. It is true for some of the very new plants e.g. gas turbines, particularly if the waste heat is utilized; but that is far from universal. You also have to factor in 10 - 15% transmission losses.

As a public, general solution, I'm sold on PHEVs with smart placement of charging stations. Mind, I'm not against EVs at all. I don't think they can come close to PHEVs in cost/benefit though.