Hybrids v. Electrics... am I the only one who sees a major drawback?

Yes, but for some urbanites, that mode might be perfectly acceptable. I don't think we should expect that one design is best for everyone.

I have not seen the numbers, but I think there are two factors to consider:

(1) Which has fewer emissions. That may depend on where you get your electricity. If it's a newer plant, or hydro, or nuclear, then emissions could be almost zero.

(2) Which is cheaper? I suspect given the volatility of gas prices, getting your energy from a central power source would be cheaper.

I would expect that most here would agree. My driving habits would simply not allow for an all electric vehicle - at this time. Maybe if i'm retired and living in a small community, with short commutes to go to the golf course, to get food, etc...then all electric would make sense.

 

i wouldnt want to buy an electric car based on an assumption that i wont drive it for a long trip in its lifespan. sometime in my life i might have to make a special trip far away

but electric cars have to start somewhere so that the technology will improve over time. thanks to volt/leaf/whatever, we might see electric cars that can travel 300-400 miles 10-20 years later, with chargers available at every gas stations.

 

I agree that EVs have to start somewhere, but the battery technology (and convenient recharging/swapping) is just not quite there yet. And if I had two cars in the family, I would still want both of them to be able to go on a long trip if needed..(suppose one was down for repairs).

 

Why buy a car for a single hypothetical trip once in it's lifetime? Plan a Enterprise car rental for a week and get the car you actually use day to day.

May I someday need to move 10 tons of hay? Maybe. Can I do that in my Prius? Not reasonably, no. Do I know where to rent a truck if I ever do need to move hay? Yes. Meanwhile it is cheaper to drive a Prius, rather than a huge pickup 'just in case'.

 

Yes this is going to be a very important consideration. IMO we will begin to be seeing 'purpose-specific' vehicles. We're somewhat there now.

• small commuters ( maybe EVs ) that only get one to work / school and back home; but not at $40000+
• long-drive autos for the Boston to NY trip
• family vehicles that can double as long-drive vehicles
• trucks for Home Depot jobs
• work trucks
• heavy haulers

There is another very important consideration. The money spent to recharge at home goes to the local utility. It doesn't go to Big Oil and then get passed onto those that would do us harm. This is my key reason.

My driving wouldn't be able to take advantage of the benefits of an EV either. Now my wife would be a perfect candidate...but again not at $40000+.

 

Anyone buying an EV or PHEV needs to go the full distance and source their electricity from non-fossil sources. Otherwise, assuming that about half the electricity comes from coal (the national average), they're just not getting much CO2 pollution reduction for their money.

Indeed, instead of buying an EV or PHEV many people would get significant reduction in their personal CO2 pollution simply by contracting with their local utility for non-fossil electricity for their household.

 

A buddy of mine was thinking of getting the new Prius. He has a perfectly good car now, but wants something with better gas mileage for his comute. The catch is - he only lives 3 miles from work. Economically, I'm not sure either a Prius or an EV make a lot of sense for him. Even if the car only cost $20K, the money he would save in fuel costs (primary use is only comute) would never payback the $20K "investment" for a new hybrid or EV vehicle. In cases such as this, while hard to quantify, I could only see buying for environmental reasons.

 

Having to keep in mind one of your cars might be in for repairs?
You haven't been a Toyota owner for long have you?

 

This is what bicycles are for.

 

They are not very safe compared to a car.

 

At least one reference about the Volt's ICE NOT charging the battery:
No "Revolting" the Volt: Chevy Battery Does Not Recharge While Driving

 

I think one of the big problems with pure electrics is the technology is not in place to build a decent performing car at a decent price.

For the mainstream, hybrid electric is the next step. 'Gotta walk before you can run', and hybrid, especially Toyota HSD is a great intro to electric drive. Obviously people are digging their Priuses.

Once hooked on hybrids, I think people will tend to stay with them. Prius is The hybrid in the world now.

 

If he only has to drive 3 miles to work he could consider a number of electric cars that are much less than 20K. The Zapcar Xebra Sedan starts at $11,700 and has a 25 mile range (Xebra Electric Sedan Reservation $99 | ZAP! Electric Vehicles).
These cheaper EVs can't drive on major highways though, and have a max speed of 40mph. Could be a good car for commuting through towns or small back roads.

 

According to Tesla and considering all factors from "well to wheel", as they put it, their roadster model is 2X more efficient than the Prius - their data here: Tesla Motors - well-to-wheel
I'm sure different (or unbiased) analyses would come up with different answers.
But, yeah for the moment the cost of a road-ready (highway speed) EV is prohibitive. Hopefully prices will come down if more models come to market. We'll see what happens if models like the Nissan Leaf and others are released as planned in the next years. I'm personally sold on the idea and hope to get one some day and in an ideal world I'd have solar panels on my house to compensate for any electricity I get off the grid. One can dream!!

 

Energy source, energy carrier, what's the difference?. Hydrogen is an energy source, but unfortunately it has a tremendous affinity for oxygen, amongst other elements. Breaking that chemical bond requires energy input greater than the the energy content released when the hydrogen is burned or used to generate electricity in a fuel cell application. So the net energy output from the free hydrogen is less than that required to isolate it from its chemical bonds.

 

This is my view as well. There's also another aspect to this.

Right now every single Prius buyer, for that matter any hybrid vehicle, can walk into any store buy one and use it to it's fullest capability. That's not true of the plugins at the moment. Huge sections of the population are excluded from using the vehicles the fullest extent.

The current HSD vehicles are flexible enough that every buyer can use them fully.

 

I have to comment on a few items here...

Certainly most US families already own at least two cars. And normally at least one of them does very little else besides commute to work. And finally... and EV is a great option for anybody who can only have one car... and also had access to a car sharing program!

Figure out a way to start a ZIP car program in your area, and you have plenty of choice.

I have to disagree. Countless problems with battery swapping. Not the least of which is having to stock muliple batteries for every car that's on the road. Since the battery is the most expensive component, the cost alone of this idea is a non-starter.

No sir! The BEST ICE does about 35%. The average is somewhere in the 15-20% range.

No, that is not true. My electricity comes from thePV panels on my roof. Others get theirs from wind. From hydro. Electricity is the ultimate flex fuel. You can create it from just about anything. We do NOT need to burn anything to make electricity.


I agree with you main points here, but have a few nits to pick.

 

Wow. so I'm shopping for a hammer to hang on my tool belt. It will mostly be for pounding nails. But one day, I may need a 20# maul to pound a huge stake into the ground. Should I buy the sledge to carry around with me for the 0.01% of the times I'll need the extra weight? Or should I maybe borrow or rent one the once a year I need the extra?

Yes, the need to start somewhere. And we need to buy them and use them for what the're best at now - which is for most trips we already take. Just not the long ones. Chargers won't be at every gas station. chargers will be in place of today's gas stations. We hope.

It has already been said... buying a car for a 3- mile commute? If he is serious about saving money and the environment, stop driving short distances!

Bicyles are less safe than compared to a car? The folks who study this say differently. You are more likely to be killed or injured per hour spent in a car than per hour spend on a bicycle. Want to know what is more dangerous than both of them? At least for head injuries? Taking a shower! So get out of your car, get out of your shower, and start riding before you get hurt!

 

Then there's the Nissan Leaf. The vehicle will be sold but the battery packwill be leased:

Nissan Unveils the All-Electric LEAF to the World (Exclusive Photos) : TreeHugger

I LMAO over the statement the CEO made in the text below the third picture, that the price of the car (without battery) would be "very competitive" with other conventional cars.

 

Dito
I used to have a 2007 Prius and now I have a 2010 Prius, Im sure I will always have a prius in my parking space.
The Prius is long range travel and our Vespas are for in-town use.
Once i can afford to PHEV my Prius I will.
Hydrogen does not make sense to me, yes water as an emission is nice, but creating an entirely new infrastructure for a 'new' fuel is dumb.
Just stricter regulate the coal power plants and build new renewable resource plants. and have PHEV's everywhere.

my 2cents