Hybrids With Stickers Getting Kicked Out of HOV Lane

This issue seems to hinge on one question:

Are HOV lanes intended to reduce pollution or traffic?

If the answer is "traffic" then HOV lanes should be reserved for vehicles with more than person.
If the answer is "pollution" then alternate fuel/hybrid vehicles should be included in the HOV lane.

In southern Florida it doesn't really matter if you're in the HOV lane during rush hour, you'll be stuck in bumper to bumper traffic anyway. In that light, Hwy 95 between Miami and Ft. Lauderdale clearly don't meet the federal standards for minimum speeds in congested traffic.

It's worth noting however, that before the hybrid HOV decal traffic was just as bad and hasn't gotten visibly worse.

 

This issue seems to hinge on one question:

Are HOV lanes intended to reduce pollution or traffic?

If the answer is "traffic" then HOV lanes should be reserved for vehicles with more than person.
If the answer is "pollution" then alternate fuel/hybrid vehicles should be included in the HOV lane.

In southern Florida it doesn't really matter if you're in the HOV lane during rush hour, you'll be stuck in bumper to bumper traffic anyway. In that light, Hwy 95 between Miami and Ft. Lauderdale clearly don't meet the federal standards for minimum speeds in congested traffic.

It's worth noting however, that before the hybrid HOV decal traffic was just as bad and hasn't gotten visibly worse.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Bransons @ Jun 25 2007, 11:44 AM) [snapback]467624[/snapback]</div>

Neither.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jun 20 2007, 04:37 PM) [snapback]465398[/snapback]</div>

In that regard, even if one never uses the HOV lanes, it's strongly recommended to attach the HOV stickers prior to selling/trading a Prius. I've read where those little stickers can add quite a bit (thousands, in fact) to vehicle resale value. Of course, although doing so could very well increase feelings of guilt, the extra dollars might help alleviate some of those bad feelings...

 

DC area is putting HOT lanes around the Beltway in the next 5 years.

Not sure if it will work or not.
It could open up room for ppl who didn't drive be4 to start taking the place of the HOT users.

 

I'm inclined to go with the whole population being more of an impact than Hybrids. Simply look at how much the population within say 50 miles of any local has increased over the past 5 years, that percentage of drivers is going to seriously impact car pool lanes.. but then again here in the San Francisco area, I've never seen a carpool lane issue. Only remote issues I've seen are that people (wisely) slow down when traffic in the adjacent lane is almost at a dead stop, we don't have the luxury of HOV lanes that are isolated by any means (not even a double yellow line) up in these parts, and the cheater who sees a CHP officer and tries to sneak back into the regular lanes.. at this point I want to honk my horn and get the officer's attention.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(The Bransons @ Jun 25 2007, 06:44 PM) [snapback]467624[/snapback]</div>

If the answer is "pollution", then hybrids should be banned from the HOV lanes. For each hybrid, allow a big dirty SUV on that lane instead. A hybrid pollutes much less in a traffic jam than a SUV, the last thing you want is a hummer idling away in a traffic jam. Make way for the SUV! Now where is the leak in this argument?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lowlander @ Jun 26 2007, 10:16 AM) [snapback]468372[/snapback]</div>

:lol:

Lets have H1/H2 have the right in the HOV lane to help pollution.

Man... image all the H1/H2's $4k premium suddenly coming from no where.... and the supply going down so bad that... H1/H2 = new SUV.

 

They need to eliminate that 45MPH-minimum clause, because if there ever is a real gas crunch again and the number of traditionally HOV-compliant vehicles on the road triples, the lack of hybrids will be meaningless to the people stuck in traffic. Using it as leverage to eliminate hybrids is just mean.

I am surprised that HOV did become synonymous with speedy. If only the initial use of the lanes had made them crowded and slow, then this we-deserve-speed-by-sharing attitude wouldn't have developed.

If one has to find logic in the elimination of hybrids, the point about getting the SUVs off the road faster is about all there is. Forcing HOV-compliant SUVs to contain one person per available seat is better and just as logical as banning hybrids, but then there'd be big piles of removed SUV seats lying around looking bad...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HOVer @ Jun 26 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]468352[/snapback]</div>

Those are some interesting numbers, and beyond that, these are "cheaters" at the toll plaza, if there's any place for violators to stay away from it'd be here most likely, they're probably more willing to cheat in when there aren't police cars parked out side the place. Also I'd be curious if they extrapolated those violator numbers or if that's only the amount the caught, seems a bit high since you don't see that many tickets being issued

 

In reading this, I find it Ironic. Traffic systems are so poorly designed to begin with that patch jobs just don't work. HOV is a patch job, plain and simple. Chicago has express lanes on the Kennedy(I90/94) that reverse during different times of day. Usually during heavy traffic times traffic is moving at the same pace or slower in the "express" lanes. In addition, there are supposed to only be cars in there, yet you see trucks(suvs) in there, and occasionally a bus. Since when a passenger bus had car privileges on the highway I'll never know, I thought they were to follow the same guidelines as commercial vehicles, since that is what they are!

The way it should be is this. Truck(18's and such) should have their own lane, opposite of the on/off ramps, and only trucks should be allowed in it. This way they have a smooth flow through traffic, and since they can run at speed, you have less emissions. Second, the middle lane(this is all based on 3 lane roads) should be the cruising lane, if you drive under the limit, your nice person gets a ticket! The right lane should be treated as the merge only lane, you get on and you get off there, you don't use it to pass or weave. Following this design, you have smooth flow of traffic even under heavy conditions, since by design, the slowest vehicle should be doing the speed limit. Of course with everyone being me first, this would never work, but it is a thought.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(HOVer @ Jun 29 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]470116[/snapback]</div>

Of course in those stats that you mentioned, a carpool is considered THREE or more passenger, not TWO or more, which is common through well most the universe. So some of the cheating might be ignorance of drivers thinking two is the norm. Also could be that there's way less carpooling due to that 3 people requirement so those that do cheat would make up a higher percentage.

I know the few times I've gone to LA over the years with my g/f I was almost shocked at the 2 people requirement, even pre-hybrid days for me I was happily going through carpool lanes like it was a gift from heaven

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jeffgb @ Jun 20 2007, 02:23 PM) [snapback]465437[/snapback]</div>

This might be a bigger deal in CA than FL. Nobody in CA government has a brother in the White House.

FL speed-limit signs all make sense once you apply the math:
70=80
65=80
60=80
55=80
50=80

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bobdavisnpf @ Jul 2 2007, 05:58 PM) [snapback]471946[/snapback]</div>

Hehe... Hurricane Coming evacuate by the end of the week = you should have already left

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bobdavisnpf @ Jul 2 2007, 05:58 PM) [snapback]471946[/snapback]</div>

Neither does anyone in Florida's government. Jeb was termed out last year.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jun 20 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]465398[/snapback]</div>

I agree


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