Hydrogen tour and FCEVs

This is the important part of the statement, "strong chemical and manufacturing base." We need hydrogen for some very important products. Right now, that hydrogen comes from fossil fuels, and making the hydrogen means making a lot of carbon dioxide. So we need green hydrogen. In addition to replacing fossil hydrogen, it could also find new uses to decarbonize other products, like steel. These need investment.

Storage of renewable electricity is also where hydrogen has a good prospect. It can be made, stored, and used all onsite. A fuel cell isn't needed to start using it this way; just burn it in a CCGT plant. Grid batteries work, but right now they are competing with EVs for the cell supply.

From there, hydrogen could make its way to transportation uses. Toyota making more fuel cells will help bring down the price for them, but it does not address the real hurdles facing hydrogen for transportation. That is distribution and storage for vehicle use. For industrial use, the users of hydrogen build next door to the producers. There is maybe 1500 miles of hydrogen pipeline in the US, with over a million miles for natural gas. For storage, they can build huge, 'low' pressure tanks.

For vehicles, a lot more pipeline will be needed, and there simply no way to do that cheaper than NG lines. More importantly, the hydrogen needs to be highly pressurized or liquidfied to be dense enough to get enough onto a vehicle. That takes a lot of energy, which is what jacks up the price of hydrogen for cars. It still leaves FCEVs with ranges not much better than a BEV.

We need green hydrogen. Make it in large quantities, and it may become viable for transportation. Cheaper green hydrogen also reduces the cost of renewable diesel and gasoline though.

 

That article is about the UK. They are talking about a ban of SALES of new ICE cars in 2030. The article seems to think that there won't be enough chargers in 2030. That is an easy problem to fix. Build some chargers in the UK.

Sometimes you have to use a mental short cut instead of analyzing every "new" idea with equal possibilities. For example when someone says they have been abducted by aliens and experimented on I don't give that equal possibility. Same thing for building a perpetual motion machine. When someone talks about green hydrogen and begins by discussing how hydrogen is everywhere (i.e. the H in H2O) you know they are being disingenuous since it takes more energy to convert H2O into H2 and O2 than you get out. By a lot. So you might as well use the energy you started with to charge a battery. There are some exceptions, for example if you need to store many days/weeks or months of it to use later.

Have you seen a side-by-side comparison of the cost of the vehicles, infrastructure and fuel for BEV vs FCEV. I haven't. FC are expensive. There is near zero infrastructure. The fuel is far more expensive (when green). It is lose, lose lose for consumer use. Without consumer use you can try for some industrial usage by minimizing infrastructure, and producing H2 on an unreliable, excess electricity basis.

Mike

 

Strange how hydrogen fuel cells work only if you have government money to pay for them. Yet BEVs have significant private money going to buy them. If not for the IRA that won’t spend a cent until 2023, the fraud cells would wither away into a footnote in history … where they belong.

Bob Wilson

 

How much does a hydrogen fuel station cost?
Stations that use hydrogen delivered as a liquid have an average storage of 350 kg/day and estimated total constructed and commissioned cost of $2.8 million. Stations that make hydrogen onsite from electrolysis of water have an average storage of 120 kg/day and estimated total constructed and commissioned cost of $3.2 million.