Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid the new MPG champion, beats Prius Two Eco

Discussion in 'Hyundai/Kia/Genesis Hybrids and EVs' started by Gokhan, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Faster, more fuel-efficient, and cheaper than Prius.

    Fuel efficiency is possibly thanks to a combination of direct injection and smaller, 1.6 L engine.

    It looks like Korea is becoming a leader in automotive industry in addition to electronics industry.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid becomes new fuel-economy champ with 58 MPG
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    hyundai rules! toyota doa.(y)
     
  3. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    I hold my opinion until they hit the street.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    really, it's all down in black and white for any atute observer. why wait to send your congratulations?
     
  5. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    It turns out there are two versions of Ioniq Hybrid -- Ioniq Hybrid and Ioniq Hybrid Blue -- similar to Prius and Prius Eco, respectively.

    This is a good review below. Ioniq is matching Prius' 40% thermal efficiency and 0.24 drag coefficient. Weight is probably less thanks to advanced materials. Lots and lots of innovations in the engine technology -- remarkable achievement for Hyundai.

    Move over, Prius Eco: Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid Blue is rated at 58 MPG
     
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  6. jtg61

    jtg61 Member

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    "the Ioniq uses a six-speed dual-clutch transmission" >> This is bad news for this vehicle. "Not so long ago, dual-clutch transmissions -- with their superior fuel economy and lightning-quick gear shifts -- were widely viewed as the Next Big Thing. Automakers were counting on those gearboxes to improve fuel economy ratings 6 to 10 percent without compromising performance.Not anymore.After Volkswagen introduced dual- clutch transmissions in 2003, several mass-market automakers followed suit, only to encounter quality bugs and consumer complaints." http://www.autonews.com/article/20151207/OEM06/312079988/once-promising-dual-clutch-transmissions-lose-favor-in-u.s. I wouldn't trust a 1st generation hybrid, especially from Hyundai when you can get a superior 4th generation hybrid with Toyota quality and engineering. You'd be nuts to buy this vehicle. “Hyundai acknowledged Toyota’s decades of work and millions of hybrids sold to make it the number one manufacturer of green vehicles, but the number two spot is up for grabs and the South Korean automaker aims to grab it.” They can have #2.
     
  7. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Some of the engine innovations in Ioniq that improve performance and fuel economy, such as high compression ratio (13.0:1), high cylinder-block coolant temperature (105 C), and direct injection, may bring some concerns on engine reliability.

    However, Ioniq beats Prius in many areas in terms of innovation, performance, and fuel economy. Hyundai definitely deserves credit for what it has come up with.

    The car also comes standard with Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, important things Prius lacks. It also comes standard with some other luxury features that are missing in many or all trims of Prius.

    Passenger volume is also 3 cu ft larger than in the Prius.

    Ioniq comes with Michelin Energy Saver A/S, the most fuel-efficient tire according to tirerack.com.

    TireRack tires with low rolling resistance

    A disappointment: No temporary spare tire but the useless tire-mending kit.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The EPA published a December update for the 2017 cars. So I took all of the IONIQ and prius vehicles and created a chart of HP vs mph:
    [​IMG]
    The IONIQ(1) is the EV which has exceptionally low, drag HP. The rest are both IONIQ and Prius hybrids. PRIUS(13) is in a cold temperature test which explains the higher power requirement. In fact the highest HP curves are all cold temperature tests including IONIQ(10).

    Bob Wilson
     
    #8 bwilson4web, Dec 12, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
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  9. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Regarding transmission, newer Prius cars are in some sense transmission less. They don't have the CVT transmissions found in nonhybrid Toyotas or older Prius cars. All they have is a simple sun - planetary - ring gear system that acts as a power-split device, which splits the powers of the engine (connected to the planetary gears) and motor/generator 1 (connected to the sun gear) and transmits them (through the ring gear) to the wheels and motor/generator 2 (the latter two being directly connected by fixed gears), The effective gear ratio between the engine and the wheels is controlled by electronically varying the speed of motor/generator 1 connected to the sun gear in the sun - planetary - ring gear system. There are fewer wear-and-tear parts: a dry engine-torque limiter and various ball bearings but no wet or dry clutches, no brake bands, no CVT chains/belts, etc. Note that thanks to two motor/generators and the power-split system, Prius is a true hybrid, albeit the EV mode being limited.

    Dual-clutch transmissions are subject to clutch wear and tear as in manual transmissions.

    [​IMG]
     
    #9 Gokhan, Dec 12, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
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  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I would add that the Prius Prime includes a one-way clutch on the engine shaft that allows MG1 and MG2 to work as a single motor for a modest power, EV. The lay reports suggest the Prius Prime has the acceleration characteristics of the Gen-1 Prius which was in the 0-60 mph range in ~13 seconds.

    One thing I've learned with my 168 hp BMW i3-REx is the power has to be limited at low speeds to avoid, uselessly spinning the tires. This suggests the modest power of the Prius Prime will still make it fairly quick around town.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Hardware is only one side of a system in a modern car. The other is software, and 1.9 million gen3 Prius were recalled world wide because the software side would just 'stall' the car for no reason.

    Hyundai has come a long way in terms of reliability. There could be issues with the Ioniq, but the Prius isn't immune to them. There was a stop sale on the gen4 because of the parking brake recall after all.
     
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  12. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    It turns out that the regular automatic transmissions also use the same sun - planetary - ring gear system. However, instead of being able to vary the speed of one of the gears (such as the sun gear), they completely stop it with brake bands. They also switch the engine side and wheels side between the two moving gears using wet clutches. This way, you get discrete gears, depending on which of the three they stop and which one is the engine side and which one is the wheels side. Using more than one system, they can obtain four or more discrete gears.

    Transmission in the Prius is a lot simpler (only one system, no brake bands, no wet clutches) and you get variable gear ratio -- all thanks to the motor/generator 1 being able to continuously control the rotation speed of one of the gears (sun gear).
     
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    let's face facts people, ionique is the new world champ, prius is down and out.
     
  14. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Ioniq has big shoes to fill.

    Gen 4 Prius is a very well-reviewed car (albeit not so well-reviewed in previous generations). In addition Toyota tops in reliability among all car manufactures.

    However, fuel efficiency, economical pricing, and ideal engine size (1.6 L) of Ioniq will make it a dream car for Europe, where gas and cars are heavily taxed. In many European countries, Prius is heavily taxed because of its 1.8 L engine size. In some European countries, 2017 Prius is priced at $53,000 (including tax) and higher, putting it beyond the reach of a middle-class family.
     
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  15. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Facts too soon.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    they are either facts... or they are not.
     
  17. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Facts regarding roll down? Yes, but does it make Ioniq new world champ?!
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    read the o/p.;)
     
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  19. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    The story may not be over. Let's see what the next gen Prius c will pull off and if Toyota accepts the challenge.
     
  20. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    I'll believe it when I see it.

    I still vividly remember Ford's C-Max with the "remarkable" 47 mpg beating the Prius v. I would've bought it if the dealer had a model in. Luckily, they didn't and I ended up with a PiP. But I remember when Ford admitted fault at calculating the mpg incorrectly using a theoretical model that the EPA allows and said it was 43 mpg. But still no one got that number. It was revised a second time to 40 mpg when Ford admitted they used a theoretical model based on the Fusion that the EPA allows. Wth? Did they get fined? I don't know. Hyundai got fined big time though when they misrepresented EPA in the 40 mpg in their Elantra back around 2010?

    I own a Sonata so I liked Hyundai enough to buy one of their cars in 2008. But they'll need to earn my trust if I am to believe their claims again.
     
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