Featured Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor?

Thanks bisco ... I missed it. I'd suppose a brake cable would be a quick and easy fix.

 

You mean usable "for a pinch." /sarcasm.

 

is it a cable? Some new cars are electric parking brake. Not sure which one is used on Toyota's new model, but it might be more time-consuming than meets the eye.
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It is a cable link, as the previous Prii.
The rear suspension is quite different now but kept the system type.

 

we don't know if it's time consuming, because they haven't even gotten the clips yet.

 

I would have thought that was obvious, and not require reverse engineering Toyota's(or Ford's) control laws.

Reports on the Sonata hybrid said it automatically pulse and glides the engine and motor while cruising. On S. Korea's EPA based tests, the Ioniq bests the gen3 Prius, as long as you don't opt for the wheel upgrade.

In BMW's defense, they might have been more focused on making an affordable carbon fiber BEV, and had less resources on the REx option.

 

I agree that some things should be obvious and then there is GM. <rim-shot>

My thinking is in January-February we should have the "Test Car List Data" for all the cars and by May, Argonne Labs detailed data (0.1 second resolution.) Understand we've already seen instances of non-USA testing to be 'unreliable' although I give credit to for the EU revelations about the diesel cheat. Our USA tests are so reproducible that cheating rules could (and were and are) easily implemented.

The cleverest hack is a clock that disables emission controls one second AFTER the longest test.

Bob Wilson

 

You should'a been working for VW

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Hyundai got slapped hard by the EPA over MPG figures not too long ago, and by reports, wasn't intentional cheating.
Then the Ioniq doesn't need to best the gen4 on fuel economy, if it delivers near the gen3 and undercuts the Prius on price.

 

wasn't it ford not too much earlier - prior to that? iirc - it was over their cMax hybrid.
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it doesn't really matter. pricing and performance will all come out in the wash. speculation is what we do best here on p/c.

 

Also the Fusion hybrid and I think the high efficiency Fiesta.
Ford intentionally broke the spirit of a rule, but not any actual rules. So got by restating the window sticker numbers and a small reimbursement to owners.

In Hyundai's case, it appears there might have been confusion over what was allowed in averaging results. One of the reasons the EPA had the rules change for 2016 was to clarify such rules. The fine was high for this offense because it is based on cars sold, and it was one of Hyundai's top sellers.

 

Isn't the Ioniq smaller than the Prius, and how close is it to the Prius C dimensions? Toyota could update the Prius C with Gen IV internals with vastly better efficiency, and at a lower price, leaving the Ioniq squeezed in no man's land; it's going to be hard to convince anyone to put their faith in a first gen offering from Hyundai, by then.

 

It is smaller, but we don't know how much. A review copied here didn't have an issue with the Ioniq's size. I think it will fall between the Prius and Aqua/c. I'm actually expecting it to steal more sales from the Prius c.

The Aqua will be improved, but the Ioniq will have a year at least of selling against the old Prius c. The c's efficiency will improve, but I don't think the price will change much. I'll be corrected if wrong, but I don't think the gen4 has a lower price than the gen3 did. Then the parallel hybrid Hyundai uses can have a cost advantage over the power-split of HSD.

This isn't Hyundai's first hybrid. The Sonata hybrid is actually on the second generation.

 

And - the Sonata is definitely decent sized. - the Hyundai Ioniq (iirc) will be similarly sized to the Prius - we just don't know yet how close it'll be.
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This uncertainty about the IONIQ size is just one of dozens of metrics we do not have. For example, it takes three coefficients to do a proper energy model of a car. Citing just the coefficient of aerodynamic drag is not enough. We've also seen in the past different 'interior volume' metrics. So I look to the EPA to provide a common metric backed up by Argonne Labs metrics of how the car actually works on a dyno. These should be resolved in about 2-3 months, January-February 2017.

Bob Wilson

 

The Hyundai Ioniq as an "in-betweener" in size will likely have it's appeal among buyers, but if it doesn't come near the efficiency of either Prius models, the pricing would have to be closer to the Prius C, then the Gen IV. Hyundai uses a lithium battery with twice the kWh than the Gen IV has, I would think that would offset any price advantage over their hybrid system...they may be taking a huge bath on profit margins with the Ioniq to establish a market.

 

The Ioniq is very similar to the size of the Prius liftback.

 

If you analyze the monthly/yearly cost, anything over 40mpg has minimal impact on real cost.

Example using 1,000 miles per month and $3 per gallon gas:

1,000 miles/40mpg = 25.0 gallons x $3 = $75/month
1,000 miles/45mpg = 22.2 gallons x $3 = $66/month
1,000 miles/50mpg = 20.0 gallons x $3 = $60/month
1,000 miles/55mpg = 18.2 gallons x $3 = $55/month
1,000 miles/60mpg = 16.6 gallons x $3 = $50/month

So if the Ioniq is 45mpg and the Prius is 55mpg, you save just $11 per month or $132 per year. Are consumers are going to be swayed by $132/year?

Of course there are other factors such as environmental impact, reliability, interior volume, styling etc.

 

The Ioniq is around the size of the Elantra; the Prius about that of the Corolla. Hyundai starts the Elantra at $1300 below the Corolla. We should expect that to be the minimum price difference between the Ioniq and Prius.

Li-ion prices have been dropping. The pack in the Ioniq is 0.15kWh larger than the NiMH one in the Prius. It would not be shocking if the Hyundai pays the same, or less, for the Ioniq pack, than Toyota does for the NiMH one. The MGs in the parallel system are smaller, and lower cost. The transmission will be more than the HSD transaxle in terms of components, but there could be cost savings by sharing transmission components with their ICE models. So I think they can under cut the Prius by more, and I do think they'll also cut their profits to establish the model. Hyundai will probably make that up on the plug ins since they'll have the federal credits for some time.