I-5 Bridge collapse, Mt. Vernon - Burlington WA

General remarks here.

The US once had the greatest infrastructure in the world - we have to bite the bullet and systematically restore it over the years if we want to remain a superpower. I'm not advocating a 21st century WPA or other huge government program, but more than the current neglect that the bridge collapse a few years in Minneapolis did not reverse.

 

Actually you are advocating, correctly, a 21st century WPA, huge government programs. Many of them, water/sewer are in similar condition, school buildings, parks, dams, rail all require massive programs from 30 years of "no taxes" "evil gummnit" ideological neglect and the fantasy of free lunch where everything fixes itself by magic.

WA is microcosm for this as I-5 falls into one river while the ideological GOP nutcases kill the new I-5 bridge over the Columbia, a project that includes light rail connection from Portland to Vancouver. When they kill it, it will take another 10 years to put it back together.

They have found time to tax hybrids and EV's while not raising the gasoline tax doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what is needed.

It's like the two Oklahoma Senators who vote AGAINST other states disaster aid and now make big claims upon it. And people keep electing these nuts.

 

^ Right now, we are letting the highway system decay.

I don't expect anything like the Interstate Highway program of the 50's to happen.

But something needs to be done.

 

What people (especially those that are bossed with "first cost") don't get is the investment aspect of good public works/infrastructure spending. For example, a bad bridge that hinders commerce brings hidden costs with it. For example, if bad bridge and traffic management adds 1 hour to a truck trip, multiplied by X number of trips per day is the hidden costs.

Let's just say it is $100, per truck, times 100 trips per day, makes a drain on the economy of $10,000/day, or better than $3 million per year. Multiply that by all the hidden infrastructure costs and pretty soon you are talking real money.

The bottom line, if you amortize the costs of up grading uch infrastructure over a good design life, and it turns out to be waaaay cheaper! In this current economy we ought to be bonding ourselves to the hilt, building and rebuilding every bridge and road, and school we possibly can right now, since bonding interest has NEVER been lower. We could solve the unemplyment issue right now, and invest in infrastructure that actually pays long term benefit. Borrowing for infrastructure at such low rates is really a no brainer, something out body politic is pretty good at!

The problem is we have no political will to do so, since we have convinced ourselves that we have a "debt crisis" when in fact what we have is a infrastrucure/jobs crisis. (Amongst other issues!)

Icarus

 

It is not just the highway system. It is in fact surface streets, schools, sewer and water systems, power grid, gas line infrastructure. According to the American Society of Civil Engineers we are woefully deficient in nearly all aspects of infrastrucure spending relative to the rest of the world. (real numbers easily available on Google)

Icarus

 

I think 15 million was estimate for the temporary fix. the permanent fix is expected to be 50 million plus. Mt Vernon is a town very similar to Aberdeen. it is vital in that it acts as a crossroads to desired destinations. it has no real jobs or industry other than recreational fishing and farming. its real existence was due to logging way back when which has been long gone putting them into a semi-recession that "had" been going on for 30 years. the last time I spent any real time there was the early nineties when I was seeing someone who was born and raised in the area.

to give you an idea of what the atmosphere was back then, I went up to help her dad one time to retrieve his fishing shack which was perched on the side of the river on public land that was literally unusable due to flooding. they had a flood and the shack washed off its "foundation" so we had to basically winch it back into place.

the shack has been in the family for 80+ years and there is no paper of any kind. its simply widely known as the shack "Bear" owns and that is that. now how it gets to sit on public land I am not sure although there were several "cease and desist" notices on the door but apparently it had become some sort of discussion between the feds and the local tribes as to who was allowed to be there in the first place.

the other thing was fishing since he fished nearly all year long against state regs but he was apparently using his "heritage" on that as well. I think I heard somewhere that he was like 7½ % Indian or something. he had red hair soooo, I don't know...

 

The difference between Aberdeen and Mt. Vernon is that Aberdeen is sort of the "end of the line" (with alternatives) while Mt. Vernon is on the main line, with few reasonable alternatives.

Icarus

 

Sorry, wrong Washington!

 

I agree and diverting money into mass transit would be the way to go. I just read a study on electrified rail and the feasibility of hauling goods currently hauled by trucks by rail. but again that is a drastic change to put in front of a congress that cant even agree on minor changes so reading about it is just about as far as we are going to get

 

geographically Mt Vernon may seem to be centrally located but fact of the matter is there is just as much incentive to pull over in Mt Vernon as there is in Aberdeen. whether you are going to Ocean Shores to drive on the beach or Westport to go deep sea fishing, most don't pull over

 

^Dave,

The point I was making however is that Mt. Vernon carries far more intra/interstate/international trade on a daily basis than Aberdeen, regardless of the reasons to "pull off the road" . There is not a lot of reason to pull off the road in Vantage WA either, but if the I90 Columbia River bridge were to fail, that would be truly catastrophic! The next viable bridge upstream is in Wenatchee, a long way up stream, (over a mountain pass coming from the west) or HWY 26' 30 miles downstream, but needing a 100 mile detour to get over.

Icarus

 

Take money from defense, and put it in infrastructure. Simple and there is lots to go around.

 

ok, that I can agree with although not sure how Mt. Vernon equates with the fact that it lies in I-5's path. I actually think that Aberdeen could have done much better had they been a bit more organized in attracting the tourist trade. they are really centrally located for anyone going to the WA Coast. Now, the WA Coast does not have several Billions of $$ from Canada running thru it like I-5 does but it does see a pretty fair amount of traffic. I know of 4 people that are on the coast right now and there is no easy way to get there without passing thru Aberdeen

 

Heh. I lived there from 97 to late 04 and again from late 09 to 2011. I had no real reason to venture out of the Seattle metro area, more specifically the Eastside for most of my stay, which is where I worked. A former colleague commuted from Tacoma. I thought he was nuts. I knew of some who commuted from Snohomish and Monroe. Most didn't live as far away as those folks.

I usually never went down to Tacoma and nor further north than Lynnwood unless I had a real reason to (e.g. going to Vancouver BC). In my last stay there, I think I went to Vancouver BC 2x and Portland 1x or 2x.

 

Yes it was defence, but it is not now. There is no reason to need such a network to move tanks around the continental US anymore. I see the tanks being moved in and out on trains then planes and boats.

So take money out of defence spending and put it back towards infrastructure. There is almost no claim that it would be a defence expense. But economic and safety improvements can be easily argued.